This week Nick and Jace don some lame apparel and breakdown Episode 4. Clint and Kate go on separate missions, They find the elusive Rolex, and a new Black Widow is revealed! We also give some predictions involving the next episodes.
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Episode Transcript
00:00:03:28 – 00:00:12:00
Nick
What’s up, everybody, welcome back to discuss Hawkeye this week we are covering episode four. Jason, you tell us who direct, directed, wrote and the title of episode four?
00:00:12:24 – 00:00:22:27
Jace
Yes. So this one was directed again by Burton. It happens to be written this time around by Heather Quinn and Erin Campesino. It is titled Partners. Am I right?
00:00:22:28 – 00:00:35:28
Nick
So guys, as always, what we’re going to do is we’re going to do a general overview of our thoughts on the episode and exactly where we think it ranks in the season with the others as well. Then we’re going to go into a little more in depth into a scene by scene recap where we go, essentially give
00:00:36:04 – 00:00:46:17
Nick
more specific thoughts on the episode and do a scene by scene breakdown. And then lastly, we’ll go ahead and give some predictions on where we think this thing’s going to go. And we should have some fun ones for this one as well.
00:00:47:24 – 00:00:59:01
Nick
Before we get started, guys discuss Hawkeye. This season, we’ve been doing Christmas traditions every week. So week one, we did letters to Santa, Week two, we did eggnog and I was terrible in week three. What do we do for week three?
00:00:59:19 – 00:01:02:17
Nick
We did. Oh, we did the Christmas card this week. Obviously, we’re.
00:01:02:17 – 00:01:03:10
Jace
Doing ugly.
00:01:03:10 – 00:01:16:14
Nick
Sweaters, so this one’s going to be mainly for the video podcast. But if you want to take a second job, we can go ahead and just describe each other’s sweaters for our podcast listeners here. They’re they’re pretty bad here.
00:01:16:24 – 00:01:22:21
Jace
I love the mixture of these snowflakes, as well as the musical notes just randomly scattered throughout is great.
00:01:22:28 – 00:01:24:12
Nick
Jess, can you show us your sweater here?
00:01:24:29 – 00:01:38:15
Jace
Yeah, absolutely. So it starts off with just some light kind of design and gets a lot of color all over the place. But my favorite highlight of this particular sweater is that there is a great white shark with a Santa hat and a Christmas sweater style.
00:01:39:00 – 00:01:40:23
Nick
Absolutely. James has a Christmas.
00:01:40:23 – 00:01:42:03
Jace
Sweater in such a way.
00:01:42:11 – 00:01:53:11
Nick
Yeah, it’s more of a holiday sweater. He has a very nontraditional Christmas sweater there. It’s got blue and green fishes all over it. It’s obviously got a huge great white shark with a Santa hat on, which is which is classy guys.
00:01:53:11 – 00:02:01:23
Nick
We’re not going to waste too much time here. We’re going to go ahead and jump into the our general thoughts here. Jess Episode four What is it? Partners, partners? Am I right.
00:02:02:03 – 00:02:02:17
Jace
Partners?
00:02:02:23 – 00:02:09:28
Nick
Imitrex Partners? Kama Am I right? What did you think of this episode and where do you think it ranks with the rest of the episodes in the season?
00:02:10:09 – 00:02:28:02
Jace
I do feel like it took a very slight step back, but I mean, not too much back. I still think I would rank this above the first two episodes. So if anything, one to 43, to be specific, still at a good time, I thought it was a much more story centric, had a little bit of action, which
00:02:28:02 – 00:02:42:16
Jace
was nice to see at the end, which I know we will get into depth of. But yeah, overall there is some good and some bad. There was actually one particular thing that I’m almost excited, dare I say, to talk about, even though it’s something that I’m not too happy with.
00:02:42:21 – 00:02:50:28
Jace
So I hope that this is like a one time thing. Or maybe it was to lead to something else, but mixed emotions on this one, but mostly do like it.
00:02:51:05 – 00:03:07:29
Nick
I do kind of corroborate with your thoughts on as far as rankings and stuff are concerned. I did enjoy this one. It definitely kind of slows slow. Like I said, it’s the first like three fourths of the episode really just kind of slow the pace down after the kind of crazy, crazy craziness of of episode three.
00:03:08:00 – 00:03:15:24
Nick
I do kind of rank it. I think it is a step back from 33 was just like I said, I thought it was one of the best episodes of MCU TV ever, or I thought it was the best.
00:03:16:01 – 00:03:28:02
Nick
I don’t know where I’m trying to think, where I would break it with episode one or two as well. I think they’re really on the same plane. For me, I would probably agree with you. I’d probably put this one slightly above one and two, just because it’s farther along in the story and there’s kind of more revelations
00:03:28:02 – 00:03:45:15
Nick
and more kind of character stuff, obviously that comes up here so far below three, but right around 12, right around 12 in that area there. So guys, we’re going to go out and jump into our scene by scene recap here and see see kind of where we where we think a little more in-depth.
00:03:45:16 – 00:04:04:11
Nick
The episode opens right where we left off. So if you guys remember last episode they were trying to break into the bishop’s security terminal at Eleanor’s penthouse. And and as they got their information, Clint walked around the apartment and then all of a sudden got thrown in blade right to his neck, being held by Jack to Cain
00:04:05:06 – 00:04:19:24
Nick
, the the kind of guy we’ve been having a lot of fun with the Eleanor’s fiancee to be with the twirly mustache like Jason do in there. Yeah, he’s it’s been that guy, so he’s holding the knife to Clint’s throat and we cut the episode out.
00:04:19:24 – 00:04:31:16
Nick
We start right back there. It kind of jumps right into it. And then immediately Eleanor kind of comes around me, comes around the side and says, What’s going on? And it did kind of turn into what I at least they’re trying to play it off.
00:04:31:16 – 00:04:43:08
Nick
Like it’s turned into what I predicted last episode, which is, yeah, there’s a guy that just is in their house. And he was kind of doing this as like a self-defense thing. There wasn’t any kind of like villainous reason for for holding it up there.
00:04:43:15 – 00:04:58:02
Nick
And then they kind of talk. They have a kind of talk between Kate, Clint, Jack and Eleanor, where they’re Jack and Lauren. Just kind of figure out what’s going on and Kate’s trying to kind of keep them off the trail and at the same time, let them know that they’re working a mission.
00:04:58:03 – 00:05:10:08
Nick
What did you think about this whole scene from when they. Found out this, and she walks into the room. See what they have, that dinner table kind of conversation about Kate’s involvement in an Avenger mission and kind of Clinton and her dynamic through that.
00:05:10:12 – 00:05:23:01
Jace
The first thing that I kind of took away from it was the fact that I thought it was a little odd that it made it seem like they were almost breaking into the house just for it to turn into a situation where they were both home.
00:05:23:12 – 00:05:35:13
Jace
And it’s just like, what’s going on here? It’s I don’t know. Like I said, I thought they were trying to make it seem like we’re snooping around because no one’s home right now. So I thought that was kind of funny, that it just turn into that situation.
00:05:35:14 – 00:05:47:12
Jace
If they were just home, why couldn’t she have just been like, Hey, I’m home, I’m going to do something and then kind of, maybe I’ll step over to the side. But actually sneaking into the place was a little, well, random.
00:05:47:17 – 00:06:03:25
Jace
Nonetheless, the conversation, though, was pretty entertaining. I think just because of the fact that I love Clint’s persona. I love the way that he handles and composes himself in these conversations and how he just kind of stoic he is and doesn’t really give too much.
00:06:04:21 – 00:06:24:12
Jace
You know, she’s just like trying to emphasize that they’re more of a 5050 partnership on this. And he’s just like, Nah, not really. And I also love like the kind of disbelief on the moms and of just like, so she’s helping you with Amy thing like you could tell, there’s a genuine like, I don’t really get what
00:06:24:12 – 00:06:28:10
Jace
it could possibly be that she’s actually providing some sort of assistance.
00:06:28:10 – 00:06:41:28
Nick
Are you to your point about the mom and dad or the mom and fiancee just kind of show up there again? I think you’re right. It seems like she would have maybe anticipated, Hey, what if they’re home, you know, or like even I don’t know if they were, like, supposed to be at work at the time or
00:06:41:28 – 00:06:55:15
Nick
something, or she she like, didn’t anticipate that they may just be at the house that they live at, potentially before going in. But that seemed like a definitely a surprise to her, which seemed odd. And yeah, she could have done a little more sleuthing for that.
00:06:56:06 – 00:07:07:17
Nick
But yeah, they hop right into the scene at the dinner table. I liked again. I just think the guy that plays Jack to Kane was great in this too. I think he said, like he he said, like, thanks for saving the world to Clint or something.
00:07:07:17 – 00:07:18:06
Nick
And I thought it came off really, like really kind of cocky and passive aggressive and stuff. And it was his whole performance has just been really a highlight for me in the in the show so far in kind of a limited capacity.
00:07:18:20 – 00:07:37:14
Nick
And then, yeah, you get the dynamic between Kate and her mother, where her mother is obviously expressing some concern, both bewilderment and concern because she’s like, You’re doing a my my daughter’s doing a mission with the Avengers. And then, yeah, you get Clint and her dynamic where you can tell Kate is Kate is really giving 90% in
00:07:37:14 – 00:07:47:03
Nick
this relationship as far as trying to connect. And Clint is giving the bare minimum of it. She’s like, I don’t want to be friends with you. You know, like, he’s like, I really don’t want this to be a partnership.
00:07:47:03 – 00:08:03:05
Nick
I don’t want to be friends with you. And this is kind of a theme that comes up over and over throughout this episode that that kind of get into later is kind of her, her joyous kind of engagement and trying to be a partner or trying to be a sidekick or whatever.
00:08:03:06 – 00:08:21:22
Nick
What have you and Clint just like? I’m only doing this. She’s literally just to save you and I’m going to get out. I don’t want this to be more than it is. We get a scene with Clint and Eleanor right after this, where Eleanor kind of goes Mama Bear mode and kind of says in and we’ll get
00:08:21:22 – 00:08:33:29
Nick
into this later in the episode two. But very much, this episode feels kind of haunted by the ghost of Natasha Romanoff in more ways than one. She first brings this up with Clint when he’s about to get on the penthouse elevator, she says, Yeah, she’s a pretty good.
00:08:34:13 – 00:08:47:03
Nick
She’s pretty good at what she does, but so is Natasha. And we saw how that ended kind of kind of salting the wound there. A little bit for Clint, but also it seems understandable to bring that up when it’s your daughter and it’s your kid potentially doing that.
00:08:47:05 – 00:09:03:27
Nick
You don’t want them to be in danger and stuff. It also goes back to a previous note that I’d made in a past episode where I was. I was kind of describing ways in which Eleanor could. Her character could kind of fall into some some dangerous behavior or immoral behavior in service of kind of protecting Kate after
00:09:04:05 – 00:09:22:02
Nick
the horrific loss. The experience in episode one and this kind of this kind of fed into that you can definitely tell Eleanor feels required or she feels a heavy responsibility to be a protector for Kate. And I can see that kind of pushing her down some dark roads, and she kind of vaguely threatens that to Clint as
00:09:22:02 – 00:09:22:14
Nick
well.
00:09:22:28 – 00:09:34:24
Jace
I love his response to her, by the way, the way she’s just like, you know, so so you’ll drop the mission. She doesn’t say, consider like, so your decision, you’re just like, No, I can’t do that, but I will promise that I’ll keep her safe.
00:09:35:00 – 00:09:46:12
Jace
And you know, it’s like the typical cheesy, heroic thing to say, but he doesn’t say it in a cheesy way at all. It’s just kind of I love how stern he is about it. Yeah, yeah. I am not listening to you here, but I’ll make sure that she’s OK.
00:09:46:23 – 00:10:04:23
Nick
And it’s funny. It’s another red flag that she says drop the mission as opposed to You’re you’re not involved, Kate. Right? So that’s another kind of like, oh, moment for Eleanor’s character there. I think the show is very aware that she’s being painted in a certain light at this point, I don’t think that they’re I don’t think
00:10:04:24 – 00:10:21:11
Nick
they’re they. I don’t think they they think they’re really hiding anything necessarily. So it does kind of seem very on the surface. But she also makes a very sketchy phone call after this to some unknown person saying, essentially saying like, Call me back, please in Avengers snooping into our business.
00:10:21:11 – 00:10:34:13
Nick
Essentially, there there’s another phone call, obviously, between Clint and Laura. So Laura is is is present in this episode as well. It’s another phone call from home that I predicted was going to happen where they’re doing another Christmas activity that Clint can’t partake in.
00:10:35:03 – 00:10:51:03
Nick
And he asks Laura to run a a company run some information for a company, Slone Ltd., that we talked about in the last episode. So she’s kind of his she’s kind of is his guy behind the desk from the Spider Spider-Man movies.
00:10:51:03 – 00:11:06:10
Nick
You know that the the person behind the desk kind of gets all the information and stuff for him. I think that’s a cool dynamic. I don’t know that they’ve done that in other movies or episodes where Laura’s been like the the kind of information point person for Clint, but I like that she kind of serves that role
00:11:06:10 – 00:11:10:22
Nick
to do, you know what language they spoke to each other to kind of hide from the kids? Did you pick up on that at all?
00:11:10:23 – 00:11:23:16
Jace
I don’t know if it was Russian, right? Yeah. My only guess is because like with Natasha, and then they were being close to Natasha, even if they don’t think the wife was as well. So if that’s my first guess, but I have no idea for sure.
00:11:23:24 – 00:11:28:28
Jace
Yeah, because I’m a couple of languages and the Eastern European that sounds similar to one another, right?
00:11:28:28 – 00:11:38:12
Nick
I assume the Russian as well. I think if I had to guess, I would guess Russian there too. But they’re essentially talking when they get to a part where they don’t want to maybe alert the kids that there’s anything going on.
00:11:39:03 – 00:11:56:25
Nick
They speak in Russian or I don’t want to say Russian. They speak a different language that seems Russian to both of us as as kind of uncultured, uncultured American folk here. But the revelation is that she finds out Jack to Cain actually is the owner or is the CEO or something of this and limited this?
00:11:56:25 – 00:12:13:18
Nick
Do you think that that that kind of puts puts a target on him as far as definitely being involved? Like, are you still because I’m still in the camp of like, I think this is all easily explainable. Do you feel like Jack’s definitely more nefarious that the show is kind of leading to?
00:12:13:18 – 00:12:14:27
Nick
Where do you think it’s a red herring like?
00:12:14:27 – 00:12:27:11
Jace
I do still think it’s a red herring. I’m right on the same page with, yeah, I actually look at it like this kingpin who I think is really behind all of it is smart enough to know that he should not be involved to like any extent.
00:12:27:11 – 00:12:46:14
Jace
He seems like someone who would play it very coy, quiet, you know, in the background. He has no reason to have his name directly attached to something. I feel like Kingpin sees Jack as a perfect puppet to go ahead and say, Hey, this guy, he’s a real good business guy.
00:12:46:14 – 00:12:58:15
Jace
He’ll run this business for me, but this is just a front for me to do whatever. And then if someone were to go ahead and look into this, who are they going to see? Not me? And that’s exactly what Kingpin wants, is the attention to now be focused on him?
00:12:58:26 – 00:13:10:24
Nick
Yeah, that’s definitely a possibility. To my thought process was I was thinking like, I think Armand, the person that died by Blade in episode one, his kind of douchey character caricature of a rich person uncle that died there.
00:13:11:02 – 00:13:26:11
Nick
I think he’s probably into some nefarious dealings. He was probably the point person with Kingpin and a lot of stuff for for these things. I think if, if, if Jack is the CEO of this Sloane Ltd., it’s probably more of a ceremonial position that the uncle just gave him to like as a kind of a show of
00:13:26:12 – 00:13:38:06
Nick
nepotism of like, Oh yeah, you can run this company, go for it, whatever. And then he still kind of had control behind the scenes. I think it’s almost like, like I said, it’s more of a ceremonial position than something he actively works day to day.
00:13:38:21 – 00:13:46:28
Nick
I think a lot of times these a lot of times like rich people will get these kind of positions just off of who their their uncle or father is, and they don’t really run the day to day, you know?
00:13:47:08 – 00:14:00:18
Nick
So I think that’s most likely the case, but the show is very much leaning into. You’re supposed to be suggesting Jack and I just don’t buy it yet. I still don’t buy it again every time that they’ve let up where something show like he’s going to be kind of revealed as a big bad.
00:14:00:27 – 00:14:17:13
Nick
There’s been some kind of there’s a way for us to explain out of it. So I really think that’s probably the case. There’s also scenes with with her kind of sitting down with Kate and kind of a scene where kind of Jack is extremely charming, like he’s been the whole show and he’s kind of starting to charm
00:14:17:13 – 00:14:30:12
Nick
Kate a little bit. I don’t know if you notice when he’s dancing with the bombs, he’s just kind of like, Oh, that’s like sweet and stuff. So he’s kind of she’s kind of warming up to him at the same time as like suspecting him more, which I think is an interesting conflict where, like, she’s I think she’s
00:14:30:12 – 00:14:43:10
Nick
starting to kind of like, get him in like him a little more as a person. But at the same time, she’s getting more information that’s leading her to think that he’s a villain. They’re they they kind of have a kind of family Christmas conversation there where they’re kind of dancing and stuff.
00:14:43:18 – 00:14:54:05
Nick
And then she starts to feel Clint being left out and wants to go over there to help him. What did you think of that conversation between the mom and Jack and Kate and kind of what that revealed about them?
00:14:54:06 – 00:15:09:10
Jace
It was an interesting dynamic to throw in the mix here, right? Because, yeah, yeah. For all these reasons to be against them, against them, even though we’ve been on the same side of just whatever, I think you’re just trying to wave a flag over here and direct our attention somewhere it doesn’t need to be.
00:15:09:17 – 00:15:19:00
Jace
But it was also like, I feel like it kind of just went on a bit long like the whole dancing and everything. It was nice. It made its point. And then I was like, All right, it’s kind of a little bit awkward.
00:15:19:00 – 00:15:34:25
Jace
And it’s not really, I think, driving the sentiment forward that you want to. But I get what they were doing right. It was it was still a sweet moment. I’m not sure. It’s weird. I have mixed emotions on like, I’m not sure if she so much is starting to accept Jack.
00:15:34:25 – 00:15:46:18
Jace
It does seem like she is. But it seems much more like her focus is directed towards how happy her mom is. You know, like the one thing that she was really speaking about was, I’ve never seen you like that before.
00:15:46:25 – 00:15:57:20
Jace
So I think that that’s something that’s really what’s winning her over more so than, like the actual guy that Jack is. But then they do throw in that part where it’s like, how he says those certain expressions wrong.
00:15:57:26 – 00:16:13:18
Jace
That was funny. So it’s like, OK, now that’s that’s specifically about him. So maybe she is warming up to him a little bit. Yeah, I think it is just one more sign that just points towards like how we’ve been saying, I think he’s just a normal dude is just rich and that just doesn’t know any better and
00:16:13:18 – 00:16:16:00
Jace
just is ignorant to a lot of what’s going on behind it.
00:16:16:17 – 00:16:28:10
Nick
Yeah, I think if we’re wrong, I’ll be the first to admit like, like, I’ll be the first to admit it, but it just feels like you said it. It does feel like there’s a universe where I’m like, Oh, this is just a really this is just a really good guy that’s kind of being manipulated by a more
00:16:28:10 – 00:16:42:27
Nick
nefarious like partner. And and I can totally see that being the case. But yeah, I’ll be the first to admit if they if they do reveal him as a as a big bad here in the season. But yeah, I did like what you what you touched on, which was the whole like.
00:16:42:27 – 00:16:53:20
Nick
I don’t get euphemisms right? Character trait. I thought that was pretty funny, that he was just kind of weak, saying the wrong euphemisms and stuff and kind of things, getting lost in translation that her and her and Kate and Eleanor found amusing.
00:16:54:06 – 00:17:08:19
Nick
I did as well. I thought that was really good. Absence makes the heart grow older, by the way. So, yeah, Kate, he says. He says something along the lines of and I like the way they kind of wrote this to kind of tie in the character moment again.
00:17:08:27 – 00:17:21:15
Nick
They’ve done a good job. It’s such a good job of kind of revealing characters in these moments. But he said getting made fun of by your family is still better than being alone in the holidays, right? Kind of a throwaway line in that kind of registers with Kate, where she starts thinking about clean and kind of what
00:17:21:15 – 00:17:35:29
Nick
he’s sacrificing and not being with his children and and stuff like that and decides to kind of go hopefully kind of bring some Christmas joy, deliver some Christmas joy to the to the old Bruce Barton, who in the next scene ices himself down with wine coolers, which I thought was funny.
00:17:37:15 – 00:17:56:07
Nick
So yeah, she comes over. She brings some pizza and some ugly Christmas sweaters, and they kind of have heavy have a kind of fun bonding moment. This scene went on fairly long where they were kind of just like both kind of character bonding in this apartment with Lucky The Pizza Dog, and he’s kind of teaching her things
00:17:56:07 – 00:18:07:05
Nick
, and they have a very kind of father daughter kind of vibe throughout this entire scene. What were your thoughts on this scene from when they when she comes to when they like, eat the pizza together, when he learns the quarter trick?
00:18:07:14 – 00:18:09:22
Nick
All that kind of stuff. What were your thoughts in the scene in that regard?
00:18:09:28 – 00:18:29:02
Jace
I like this scene a lot, actually. I thought it was really, really nice to see them be built together more. You know this the show is done one thing really well, consistently up to this point, which with with one minor note that I’ll have later on, but it’s the building, the dynamic between them without making it seem
00:18:29:02 – 00:18:43:09
Jace
forced. They’re really cheesy. It just seems pretty genuine and organic, and I really appreciate them like that. If, hypothetically speaking, this were not to be a show and were a movie instead. This scene would make the cut of the Hawkeye movie.
00:18:44:01 – 00:18:50:21
Jace
Yeah, because I feel like it really establishes a good dynamic there, a good check point in their relationship, if you will.
00:18:50:28 – 00:19:01:00
Nick
Yeah, I think that’s a good point. Like, if they were doing a movie, this does seem kind of like a foundational interaction between the two. That kind of really, really describes their their dynamic and relationship in an efficient way.
00:19:01:01 – 00:19:16:09
Nick
So, yeah, I think they probably would make the cut for the movie. I liked I like this whole thing. I can understand if people that are kind of watching this for certain reason of getting kind of the MCU action and the more superhero, the more superhero normal stuff.
00:19:16:10 – 00:19:26:27
Nick
It would kind of find this slow and unnecessary, potentially. But I love this kind of stuff. I think it’s really cool to get a scene with an Avenger in such an informal setting that you feel that seems very relatable.
00:19:26:27 – 00:19:40:23
Nick
We’ve all had these kind of nights after COVID and everything. This feels very relatable, being stuck in a house and trying to kind of make entertainment for yourself because you can’t go do anything or something. They’re both so likable Hailee Steinfeld and Jeremy Renner as these characters that it’s just kind of fun to see them kind of
00:19:40:23 – 00:19:53:01
Nick
interact in that kind of informal setting. Again, this this episode has very much slowed the pace from three, and hopefully this is kind of an episode where they’re just kind of setting things, setting the stage for things to happen in the future.
00:19:53:02 – 00:20:09:26
Nick
They go from this scene here. Well, I mean, it’s the same scene, but they do go into a pretty intense conversation. Where they’re kind of sitting in front, they’re watching it’s a wonderful life, I believe, on TV and she starts talking about the best shot you ever took, and he said it was the one I didn’t take
00:20:10:07 – 00:20:24:15
Nick
, which was the shot on Natasha Romanoff. And again, like I said, she’s been very much a an active character in this. In a season in this whole series, she’s very much a behind the scenes emotional kind of foundation piece for for for Hawkeye.
00:20:24:21 – 00:20:36:17
Nick
The conversation gets a little more intense as she starts to kind of put together that maybe he’s that he is the own and she actually does put it together. My takeaways for this were that they were both very candid with each other, which I found really, really strong.
00:20:36:18 – 00:20:51:01
Nick
He didn’t seem like he was very guarded. He was guarded, but he didn’t seem like he was holding any information back from her. He was just kind of like telling her what it was being very blunt. And I think I think he was kind of using this as an opportunity to maybe deter her from making similar choices
00:20:51:21 – 00:20:58:15
Nick
that he did. So what did you think of this scene introducing Natasha and kind of how they reveal that Kate knows about their own and now?
00:20:58:16 – 00:21:12:06
Jace
Yeah, I think, you know, even when in the previous episode, Kate was talking about the suit design and hinting at all black with a hood. I think she kind of was like, right, given the insinuation that she may know what’s going on here.
00:21:12:11 – 00:21:28:23
Jace
And that was interesting to throw in. But the part with the title is definitely the more the bright, the more interesting takeaway for me for that particular part of the scene. I’ll tell you what, man, after hearing the way that Clint described that right, the whole just that small little snippet of when he was about to take
00:21:28:23 – 00:21:44:22
Jace
the shot did and so on and so forth. And then when you also take into consideration every other reference that there is been to the beginning of their relationship Hawkeye and Black Widow, it just makes me wish that the Black Widow movie would have been that.
00:21:44:22 – 00:21:57:26
Jace
I wish that would have been the story, right? And I kind of feel like that was a missed opportunity on their end. I do think it does make sense as to why he is trying to make such a point of like, you don’t realize what you could potentially lose.
00:21:57:26 – 00:22:05:20
Jace
Because even though I still have my family here and I think that’s the only part she’s kind of focusing on, just because they’re not blood related doesn’t mean Natasha wasn’t the family man.
00:22:06:04 – 00:22:20:09
Nick
Yeah, and he says, You know, you say Jackie has got to have my family here. He didn’t for a long time. He lost his entire family doing this. And you know, you can make the argument that he would have lost them anyway if he was affiliated or not affiliated.
00:22:20:09 – 00:22:34:25
Nick
But yeah, he he did lose his entire family and he’s lost Natasha, and that’s kind of a permanent loss for him and stuff like that. So he has lost a lot. He is trying to kind of convey that to her, the sacrifices and kind of he sees this precocious young kid and he’s going like, I don’t want
00:22:34:25 – 00:22:47:17
Nick
you to have to experience the pain that I have kind of going down this route. He also they also set up a very interesting kind of perspective dynamic between the two, where his outlook is a lot more cynical and maybe darker than Kate’s is.
00:22:47:17 – 00:23:07:26
Nick
Obviously, Kate has has an outside perspective of everything where he’s quiet. Barton, Hawkeye, this hero that that saves people constantly and he saved her and he has a very different interpretation of that. All happened in service of a more dark mission which is hurting people and that he was aimed by the right people and he’s a weapon
00:23:08:04 – 00:23:28:23
Nick
. And they they’re very diametrically opposed in this. In this argument about what Hawkeye represents and what Hawkeye means. She has a much more optimistic view of it than he does. And I love that dynamic between the two where he’s kind of a weathered by pain reluctant mentor that’s trying to tell her, like, this is how it was
00:23:28:23 – 00:23:40:07
Nick
. This is how I’m not worthy of this praise and I’m not worthy of this, this adulation from people. And she’s going, No, you may have done these bad things, but you’re very much like, you’re very much a hero.
00:23:40:07 – 00:23:51:07
Nick
You saved a lot of people, you saved my life and all this stuff, and she’s trying to kind of warm him to that idea that maybe he is worthy. He is worthy of love, he is worthy of being respected and recognized.
00:23:51:18 – 00:24:01:23
Nick
And that’s going to be kind of the the the arc for for their both their characters. I think this season is kind of meeting somewhere in the middle where maybe she recognizes what he did and what he had to sacrifice and gave up.
00:24:02:03 – 00:24:14:22
Nick
At the same time, he recognizes that maybe he did more than good and maybe he would do it again if given the opportunity. So I really love that that interaction between him, I felt that like I felt that was very foundational to their relationship in this scene here.
00:24:15:09 – 00:24:32:06
Nick
I talked to previous episodes about how MCU events are really good about using the ripples of those events later on, like whether or not it’s the Avengers compound finding tech from when it collapsed earlier. And they kind of use these events to kind of feed into each other and flesh these events out more as they go through
00:24:32:06 – 00:24:48:08
Nick
the series. I love that they do that emotionally with Natasha, where obviously she was such a beloved character and one of the foundational members of The Avengers, and that was a huge loss in Endgame. And I love that between the Black Widow movie and the series, the emotional ripples of that loss are being felt by all these
00:24:48:09 – 00:25:04:19
Nick
characters. It’s it’s it. It does it feel like a contained event? It’s very much bleeding into these other shows and movies, and you can really feel the weight of that loss in those. In those different shows, so I really love that they’re doing that, and I love it, Natasha’s kind of a very a big focal point in
00:25:04:19 – 00:25:05:15
Nick
this episode, which.
00:25:05:15 – 00:25:17:11
Jace
Is nice because they do the same thing for Tony Stark. You know what I mean? Like, obviously in Spider-Man Far From Home, there was like a huge central focal point is that, Hey, Tony Stark is gone and how sad is this?
00:25:17:12 – 00:25:38:05
Jace
And yeah, I mean, it makes sense that she was obviously maybe a different integral part, but just as integral of apart from the beginning to a certain extent and should absolutely be like remembered and missed in everything like that, especially for this, you know, it’s it’s very fitting with how close her and Clint were.
00:25:38:07 – 00:25:45:13
Jace
It would make no sense that they didn’t have that. And so, yeah, I also love that they’re making it a true big part of the show.
00:25:45:21 – 00:25:59:13
Nick
Absolutely. Yeah. So it goes from that scene to the next morning, so they wake up and he has some missions for them. So he’s going to go ahead and look into this crazy guy, which is Maya’s interpreter. Hersh kind of sign language interpreter and kind of her right hand man, her number two, if you will.
00:25:59:26 – 00:26:19:09
Nick
And then he tells her, I’ve got another whole quiver of trick arrows that were kind of collected by the police. You’re going to have to go see my friend, the lancers. We talked about potentially some of these numbers coming back in the C in the series and they do grills particularly kind of comes in clutch and helps
00:26:19:09 – 00:26:31:28
Nick
them on a specific mission. We thought that that might happen early on in the season and they do. They’re she’s going to meet the lancers, so she walks out there to meet them kind of doing their LRP stuff where they’re just kind of like swinging and attacking sound effects.
00:26:31:28 – 00:26:51:28
Nick
Guy makes a comeback. We both were big fans of him in that episode there, and she speaks with Elsbeth of Deepdale or Officer Wendy Conrad. If you want to say like her, her her usual name and asks her to tamper with some evidence to get them the quiver of trick arrows back from police lockup or something, and
00:26:51:28 – 00:27:03:19
Nick
they say, Well, we’ll go ahead and do that for you, but we need something. In return, Clint goes to see Cassie. He kind of meets him in the back of his car. It’s very kind of typical of like the guy gets in the car and then someone just kind of stands up in the backseat.
00:27:03:20 – 00:27:16:04
Nick
Your sense of in the backseat there. I don’t know if it’s like a Batman thing I’m thinking of or something, but yeah, he gets in his car and Clint kind of has a heart to heart with him. Not a heart to heart, I guess, is kind of a flowery way of putting it.
00:27:16:04 – 00:27:29:29
Nick
But he has a come to Jesus moment with Karzai, I guess, would be a better way to put it where he just says Maya is going down a dark road. She’s chasing a ghost. The Ronan’s dead. I know that you know this, and he’s saying, we can.
00:27:30:10 – 00:27:45:21
Nick
You have to talk her out of this because if she if we continue down this road, it may result in lives lost and I don’t want to do that anymore. So he seems very dedicated to minimizing even with tracksuits, minimizing the amount of people that that that die there.
00:27:46:02 – 00:27:59:09
Nick
And Karzai does not seem very receptive of that, but you could see maybe he’s planted a seed in Karzai. You were Karzai saying, like, maybe he’s right, I should probably talk to Maya, so I’m pretty sure we’re going to get that interaction later in the series.
00:27:59:15 – 00:28:13:27
Nick
They speak of Maya’s boss, which both of us are pretty sure is is a big is a big ball baby. Kingpin. So, yeah, what did you think of that scene from when he kind of meets the labors to win?
00:28:14:08 – 00:28:18:16
Nick
Clint is questioning Karzai and kind of that that tense standoff with them in the car.
00:28:18:18 – 00:28:35:20
Jace
The only thing that I have to take away from meeting the larger is is I kind of felt it to be a little ridiculous. She walked up with a bow and some arrows and is just like, Hey, I know that Avenger Hawkeye.
00:28:35:21 – 00:28:53:03
Jace
And she sent me here to get his arrows. So that’s enough, right? You’ll give them to me now, right? I was like, You know what I mean? I mean, again, for the sake of the show, I don’t know how to go about it, but still, I just thought that was kind of cheesy that she literally just walks
00:28:53:03 – 00:29:04:07
Jace
up, says, I know Hawkeye, give me his arrows that you’re holding, and they’re just like, Yeah, sure. But still, nonetheless, I thought it was nice because of what it ends up leading to what they find out there, really.
00:29:04:08 – 00:29:15:18
Jace
These are the people that are going to help out with making their their new uniforms. So I was happy they came back into the play for that. And it wasn’t like that bothered me enough to where I just all of a sudden didn’t like what was going on.
00:29:15:18 – 00:29:29:19
Jace
I just thought, that is way too funny, though that’s how simplistic it was. The Clint and kasi scene. I liked a lot more. It was. I appreciate what started off like the very typical like spy movie or something like that where he pops up, but then the actual conversation at hand.
00:29:30:01 – 00:29:42:24
Jace
I really like how it went down, and I also like how in the midst of it, Karzai kept going, potentially for another weapon. He was just like, You looking for this? Were you looking for that? Or the box cutter under the seat is like, I got it all covered.
00:29:43:14 – 00:29:58:18
Jace
But then also, yeah, go to the message itself just being like, Hey, look, man, forget the whole hero villain aspect of this. I’m just asking you as a personal person, I’m letting you know you seem sensible enough to deliver this message forward and.
00:29:59:09 – 00:30:11:22
Jace
Cut the crap, which I thought was cool, and I love how even Cosby says, like, you know, something about like, you think that highly? I mean, he’s like, Oh no, I think you’re a doormat, but then continues on to of like deliver.
00:30:12:09 – 00:30:27:08
Jace
And what I do think is that Cosby already does seem a little on the fence, right? I mean, we’ve already seen him question in front of others. You know what I mean? That’s a big thing is not just like in the background and like the, you know, the office when no one else is around in front of
00:30:27:09 – 00:30:44:01
Jace
other people, he’s like, straight up, stopped there, questioned. Or then they’ve had their own little sidebar conversation and everything. So I think that him hearing that from Clint was maybe not like a yeah, man, you’re definitely right, but just enough, like planting a seed that is going to start to sprout into.
00:30:44:16 – 00:30:57:24
Jace
Yeah. You know what? We we got to be careful here. The reason why I think that even more so is Echo is getting she’s got her own show coming up. And I cannot imagine that she will stay painted in the light of a villain, even leading into her own show.
00:30:57:24 – 00:31:09:05
Jace
I imagine that by the end of the show, we will see her as much more of a, if anything, an anti-hero. But I even doubt that I think she’s going to be like a full blown hero or close to it by the end of the show.
00:31:10:01 – 00:31:11:24
Jace
And who knows, maybe Cosby will even come with it?
00:31:11:26 – 00:31:25:14
Nick
Yeah, and I don’t think he will. I think what they’re doing, like, I think you make a really good point. I think what they’re doing is kind of setting up an eventual heir to the tracksuit mafia villainy kind of thrown that Maya occupies right now.
00:31:25:15 – 00:31:40:04
Nick
And I think what they’re doing is they’re making it. So there’s there’s a rift between the tracksuit mafias and kind of kingpins goals. And maybe Maya’s goals, which was just really just came out, came from an emotional place of retribution for her father’s death with Ronan.
00:31:40:18 – 00:31:56:22
Nick
It didn’t come from like a villainous criminal kind of motivation, I guess. So, yeah, I think they’re setting up Cassie as like an eventual successor to Maya when she eventually does flip and either wants to go against Kingpin or wants to join up with with the with aunt, with our protagonist here.
00:31:57:04 – 00:32:09:16
Nick
You made a great point there about the larger stew that makes it makes no sense. Um, so, so like first of all, they just believe her. When she says that she knows Clint, they they have no reason to believe her.
00:32:09:17 – 00:32:20:06
Nick
I don’t think that she was. She wasn’t there when Grill’s met her with Hawkeye, so I guess they would be going, Oh, how would she know that it Avenger knows us, but anybody at that laughing event would know that an Avenger knows them, right?
00:32:20:06 – 00:32:36:08
Nick
So, yeah. And then you also make a great point to where, like she just walks around with like white bows and arrows and like no one says anything she walks into, like across the street she walks into like these apartment buildings with like a huge bow and like and like deadly arrows like arrows.
00:32:36:08 – 00:32:49:12
Nick
They shoot people like, yes, I mean, like, it’s it’s you would think that she’s she’s about to go commit like a mass killing or something with like how she just kind of walking around with that stuff in like normal normal places in the city.
00:32:49:13 – 00:33:00:22
Nick
It’s not like she’s at like a countryside where she’s like practicing, you know, her target, target prices, it’s like that. So it is funny how they do that. They kind of whip on that later where he she says, How do you carry around your stuff?
00:33:00:22 – 00:33:15:11
Nick
And he says, I have a collapsible bow, which which makes more sense. It’s more kind of concealed. But for her, she’s just kind of like walking out in the middle of nowhere with it. And then the cop just agrees to go literally tamper with evidence, maybe put her job on the line for this kid that says she
00:33:15:11 – 00:33:26:25
Nick
knows Hawkeye and and then Hawkeye needs his arrow’s back. Yeah, it was extremely convenient. Didn’t make much sense. I think I always, like had these rose colored glasses, these scenes, just because I’m so happy that we’re like, we’re with llamas.
00:33:26:26 – 00:33:36:21
Nick
I think the whole concept’s really funny. So I always just look at it as like the laughing aspect of it. And yeah, the internal logic of the scene didn’t really make much sense at all.
00:33:36:26 – 00:33:48:00
Jace
How about the concept that his trick arrows are not one time use? I mean, just that alone. Also, I thought, was kind of weird. Like, you can get them back and use them again. You know, like the purple goo arrows.
00:33:48:00 – 00:33:48:12
Jace
It’s like.
00:33:48:23 – 00:34:04:18
Nick
Yeah, obviously, like the suction arrow makes sense. Yes. Do it, grab it. Pull it back. You can use that again. Or maybe the the grappling hook arrows that they disconnect and then like ships you back that way. But yeah, the ones that kind of explode are obviously one time use, right, though the pyro arrows or whatever, or
00:34:04:18 – 00:34:16:01
Nick
the goo arrows I’m assuming. I guess maybe they just they like, pull it off and then refill it with whatever that stuff is. I don’t know. Yeah, it did seem it seemed funny that he kind of brought those up as like, Oh yeah, no, you can grab them.
00:34:16:01 – 00:34:31:10
Nick
They’re not one time use. It’s like, I think I think he met. Some of them are. I think I think like, I think the goo arrows, the explosive arrows, those kind of things are not reusable, but maybe like the smoke arrows are where you just kind of refill it with something or the suction cup or a USB
00:34:31:10 – 00:34:33:06
Nick
arrow. Those kind of things are probably reusable.
00:34:33:07 – 00:34:39:11
Jace
Well, she uses the goo arrows again later, so I’m either guessing that he just had more of them.
00:34:39:18 – 00:34:42:18
Nick
Yeah, I think he had more of those in the quiver that they got from the cops.
00:34:42:22 – 00:34:53:15
Jace
You obviously have a lot of connections and resources, and I get he’s trying to lay low, but you’re going to tell me that you don’t know anybody that might be able to manufacture some new trick arrows for you.
00:34:54:01 – 00:34:55:11
Jace
Anybody?
00:34:55:12 – 00:35:08:18
Nick
Yeah. You don’t think you don’t think Pepper would hook him up. You know. I think the thing I’ll push back on with that is, I think he does. I honestly think he does. But he wasn’t expecting this mission.
00:35:08:23 – 00:35:19:13
Nick
So like he, he was expecting to kind of just be retired and like, be with his family. He probably has more arrows at home, but he’s out of town in New York at the time. So I think he does.
00:35:19:14 – 00:35:29:12
Nick
I think this this just kind of came out of nowhere this mission where he’s having to protect Kate from being Ronan. And I don’t think he’s obviously had time to, like, reach out to his contacts and say, Hey, I really need some trick arrows to hook it up, you know?
00:35:29:18 – 00:35:36:04
Nick
I think it’s more about it’s more situational than it is about that. He doesn’t have the means to manufacture, have these arrows there.
00:35:37:01 – 00:35:38:02
Jace
That’s a totally fair point.
00:35:38:03 – 00:35:52:21
Nick
With cars in the car. He brings up that William Lopez, which I’m assuming is Maya’s father, was a lieutenant for four years for the track suits. I do like the interaction. Like you said, I do like that he he had all of the compartments checked is almost like the guy was checking the stuff, and he just looked
00:35:52:21 – 00:36:07:05
Nick
at him like, Are you serious? I’m Hawkeye. This isn’t my first rodeo. Like, I know where you would put this, this this crap. So I did kind of like that. It very it plays up the kind of cleanse Clint’s paranoia and and how kind of thorough he is as an Avenger, which he’s always been.
00:36:07:09 – 00:36:19:21
Nick
It goes from that scene to Grylls is cooking Snickerdoodle cookies. He’s baking snickerdoodle cookies in a in their apartment, which I thought was a fun touch and ask kind of if they want them. This is the scene where they do go into that.
00:36:19:21 – 00:36:35:02
Nick
The girl designs costumes, and if maybe they can get some cool materials, they can design some cool costumes there. So, yeah, it does set up. They’re obviously going to be the ones that are that are kind of designing the the two Hawkeye suits, which is fine like lava are going to design the Avengers suit.
00:36:35:03 – 00:36:49:03
Nick
There’s going to be cool. I’m sure going to be one of those situations where like later they they get an official upgrade from somebody like Bruce Banner or, you know what I mean, something like that or like they get a more kind of practical upgrade for it, but it’s fine that the lawyers are being kind of being
00:36:49:03 – 00:37:04:14
Nick
kind of weaved into the storyline in this way. The comedy mostly worked in this one. For me, some of the stuff seemed a little like much. I didn’t like the whole like my here’s my bag, my my wife embroidered it thing and kind of adding that whole extra dynamic to like, Oh, they’re going to have to give
00:37:04:14 – 00:37:19:18
Nick
this bag back to this lava because it was, you know, I thought that was like a little is a weird subplot to add in, but I’ll withhold judgment until I see kind of how they pay it off later because they may be setting something up that that could be really fun with having that get that bag back
00:37:19:18 – 00:37:34:28
Nick
to that cop that helped them out. We get the information that from Laura that the Rolex wasn’t destroyed. They’re very ambiguous about the Rolex. We still don’t know what it is, but it says it wasn’t destroyed. It’s obviously a very important thing if they just have to say the Rolex and they both know exactly what they’re talking
00:37:34:28 – 00:37:50:25
Nick
about. So it’s obviously something very powerful and they get an address for where it is locating from. I’ll go ahead and bite the bullet here. I was 1,000% wrong. That lucky eight, the eight, the watch. I was hanging onto that for a long time there that that’s that did not seem to be the case.
00:37:51:01 – 00:38:07:17
Nick
The watch is actually located at an apartment of someone that we’re going to find out about very shortly. They go to find where the watches, they go to an apartment complex and they’re they’re trying to orchestrate a particular mission to find the Rolex there between Kate and Clint on a rooftop, Kate kind of storms off on her
00:38:07:17 – 00:38:19:28
Nick
own and takes a more practical approach to getting into the apartment. And Clint would have he. He’s kind of a more tactical and she’s more practical. And yeah, she gets into the apartment. They’re searches around and she finds the watch will go ahead and stop there.
00:38:19:29 – 00:38:34:19
Nick
What did you think of that scene from when they, the large are kind of designing their costumes for them and that whole kind of interaction and about the girl with her bag and all that kind of stuff? And then the scene where Clint’s in a mentorship role kind of tactically walking her through how to get into this
00:38:34:19 – 00:38:45:04
Nick
apartment, how do you sightlines, all that kind of thing. He’s he’s these very teaching moments between the two and then Kate’s reluctance to kind of fall for any or use any of that and just kind of storm off.
00:38:45:05 – 00:38:49:07
Nick
He’s a practical approach to get in an elevator with a guy that whole thing. What do you think of that scene from start to finish?
00:38:49:13 – 00:39:09:10
Jace
I’m excited to see the whole coming together of the officially getting there. You know, their uniforms, costumes, whatever, right? That’s that’s going to be an exciting moment. The whole bag thing, I agree, was like a muscle that has a very emotional touching payoff I thought was ridiculous because the first thing I thought was she’s like, You didn’t
00:39:09:10 – 00:39:14:17
Jace
bring your own bag. It’s like, you can’t just take them out of the bag and take the bag back.
00:39:15:01 – 00:39:20:11
Nick
Like there was there was no there’s no bag at that apartment there. They could put that in, you know, I don’t know.
00:39:20:11 – 00:39:35:01
Jace
It’s the other thing. Yeah, exactly right. There’s no other bag, no other way a means of transport like I get, they’re in a rush. But I mean, you clearly were just hanging around for a moment. So you can’t just like, take another second to find another way to do this, or you can just just carry.
00:39:35:03 – 00:39:49:07
Jace
I don’t know. So I thought that was definitely a little odd, but fingers crossed that it has some really, really nice emotional payoff at the end. But past that point, this is actually where we start to tread into where my issues come into play for the episode.
00:39:49:08 – 00:40:02:16
Jace
I love how Clint was giving his whole life, as you’re saying, tactical approach. This is the way we’re going to go about this. I I, you know, no down to like the exact. A minute, it’s how long it will take me to break into this place, I just need you to keep a lookout.
00:40:02:20 – 00:40:20:17
Jace
The reason I chose this place for a look out is because it’s the, you know, the prime location for it and so on and so forth. Like, there’s it’s a very thought through thorough type of plan. And it honestly, it really bothered me that she just completely disregarded that.
00:40:20:21 – 00:40:40:07
Jace
The one thing I’ve respected so much about this show up until this point is how they have had her not do that, how she has, you know, still showed signs of like maybe immaturity here and there. But by all means also shows kind of equal signs of composure and and willingness to listen and do better.
00:40:40:12 – 00:40:59:14
Jace
And so the fact that she just disregarded everything he said and blatantly walked across the street in the open in the public like that helped the guy with the old man with the groceries. I didn’t find that to be entertaining because the whole time I’m sitting there going, What are you doing right now?
00:40:59:22 – 00:41:11:01
Jace
Like, this is not even if this is for a comedic approach to me, it was not landing at all because I’m like, You’re just being stupid and like, not even like a look at how silly she’s been. No.
00:41:11:01 – 00:41:28:22
Jace
Like, you’re really being stupid. You guys are trying to break into an apartment and you think to walk in with a bow and arrow is just seriously not going to be like a problem. So that, really, like I said, definitely was a detriment to her character, and I’m hoping that that’s something that they do something about, right
00:41:28:23 – 00:41:40:08
Jace
? Improve our moving forward because I think, yeah, like you were saying by the end of this, I think we both been hinting at this a lot throughout the past couple episodes. I do feel like they’re going to end this off where it is an even exchange.
00:41:40:16 – 00:41:53:07
Jace
Hawkeye’s a little bit more personable, but still, you know, structured and well composed. And then she’s picked up on a lot of qualities of him while still staying herself. This is one quality she definitely has to drop if they want her to continue.
00:41:53:14 – 00:42:02:22
Jace
They likable and to be an effective member of potentially the Avengers at one point. I think it does a good job of proving like this is why you don’t do what you did.
00:42:03:12 – 00:42:16:07
Nick
Yeah, well, that’s the thing. I think that’s the main component for me because I do agree it. It felt it felt kind of out of character. She’s weird. She’s told this line between like revering Kim is like an idol to like, Shut up, old man.
00:42:16:07 – 00:42:28:12
Nick
I got this. It’s like, it’s a weird like, it’s a weird thing to like tussle between those two things because she goes like, like, she goes from this. Like, he’s my favorite Avenger fangirling over Hawkeye and about how great he is as a hero to like.
00:42:28:17 – 00:42:42:14
Nick
Yeah, your advice. It’s whatever. I’m going to go ahead and take this approach and see see kind of where it goes. It’s weird to kind of like wrestle with those two things. They go into the apartment and she finds the Rolex watch when she goes in there, they’re these two kind of strobe lights that start flashing in
00:42:42:14 – 00:42:53:24
Nick
this kind of red light flashing. And she goes, she shoots them with putty arrows, and then she tells him, Oh, there were these two strobe lights. And I remember thinking, like, do you not recognize that as an alarm?
00:42:54:02 – 00:43:00:25
Nick
You know what I mean? Like, you just you just like you just like keyed into someone’s house and went in and then all of a sudden these lights start flashing and it’s like, How do you not immediately go?
00:43:00:29 – 00:43:12:14
Nick
Oh, that triggered alarm. Maybe I should hurry up and grab this stuff and get out of there. I don’t know who thinks that, like when when you’re breaking into an apartment in the dark and all of a sudden lights start flashing and it’s like, Oh no, it’s just strobe lights they have like, they.
00:43:12:14 – 00:43:14:12
Jace
Must just have set the party.
00:43:15:04 – 00:43:24:14
Nick
Yeah, they must just have strobe lights going for no reason. I remember thinking like, it was weird because she said it and it didn’t even raise red flags with Clint. He’s like, Oh, OK, well, fine, the watch. And I’m like, How are you both?
00:43:24:15 – 00:43:38:00
Nick
Just like, cool with the fact that you broke it at night lights start flashing like that seems very obvious as to what that would be. This is this is a scene. I agree this scene had a lot of issues where it felt like some of the internal logic that had been so strong to the show up to
00:43:38:00 – 00:43:51:26
Nick
this point felt very convenient and very kind of underwritten in this in this sequence, where either characters were making strange decisions or the logic of what was happening in the plot kind of broke down where you’re like, that doesn’t make any sense.
00:43:51:26 – 00:44:09:05
Nick
Why? Why they wouldn’t. They wouldn’t kind of recognize that. But just to transition into the into the following scene, they find the Rolex and then Maya and Kate get into a fight on me in the apartment and then a masked figure and Clint start fighting on the rooftop across the street.
00:44:09:09 – 00:44:23:20
Nick
This is the kind of main action scene Maya fights Kate. Kate flies over the the the street. I guess they start kind of fighting the masked figure. Maya ends up coming over. There’s this big kind of free for all where they’re all fighting each other.
00:44:23:20 – 00:44:33:11
Nick
You can tell that the masked figure and Maya are not on the same team. What were your thoughts on this action scene and then what were your thoughts on the huge reveal at the end as to who that masked figure was?
00:44:33:11 – 00:44:40:04
Nick
I’ll go ahead and leave that one for you. But what did you think of that that reveal in in the fight scene that that that precluded it?
00:44:40:05 – 00:44:58:09
Jace
That was definitely a really, really good, well put together action scene. So not that every single thing needs the most action. However, when it comes to shows like this that are superhero based, even when it’s on superpowers, you do want to see action somewhere at some point to help break up everything else.
00:44:58:19 – 00:45:10:25
Jace
And I thought this was a very nice action set piece to end with, so it was very happy with that. I thought the whole cape coming down and the the actual boat right and then getting stuck, I thought that was hilarious, actually.
00:45:11:05 – 00:45:23:18
Jace
I know they didn’t mean it to be like, let’s crack you up moment. But I think that’s what made it very effective was it wasn’t really, Hey, let’s let’s make a cheesy joke. It was just like, Oh, shoot, what am I going to do here now that I’m stuck?
00:45:23:24 – 00:45:37:10
Jace
When they actually got over, that was also really cool because as you mentioned that when we see this masked figure as well as Eko going at it. And I thought that was just really cool because it was like, OK, they’re clearly defining they have nothing to do with each other.
00:45:37:10 – 00:45:51:02
Jace
This is not like they had some planned attack on who was breaking into the apartment. And it also adds, like, I want to say, an extra level of confusion. However, I think we all kind of started to get the hint pretty quickly at who it was.
00:45:51:11 – 00:45:59:09
Jace
Not to say you should feel better if he didn’t. But I think they did a good job of making it relatively obvious early on before even the official reveal happened.
00:45:59:12 – 00:46:03:10
Nick
That’s a great point. I just want to button for one second. At what point did you know that’s her.
00:46:03:17 – 00:46:20:04
Jace
Just ever so slightly before she used a weapon that gave like the Red Shark? So there was a certain there was a certain point where I can remember exactly what happened to make them do this, but they kind of like went backwards and she landed in the Black Widow pose.
00:46:21:03 – 00:46:30:19
Jace
And so I was just like, Yeah, I was like, Oh, all right. Yeah, for sure. I’d be like that, right? That just kind of do for sure confirmed it. And then, of course, the weapons that she was using further gave it away.
00:46:30:20 – 00:46:44:20
Jace
By the way, if you can’t tell from what I’m saying at this point, we end up finding out that it is Yelena Belova who was actually the masked figure, which was really, really cool. She doesn’t necessarily have any lines in the episode, just appears and gets confirmed and everything.
00:46:44:24 – 00:46:56:19
Jace
But it is just, you know, giving their clear intent that she’s after Klimt, which if you’ve seen the Black Widow movie, the after credits scene, you would definitely know why. But man, that was that was definitely a cool way to leave things off.
00:46:57:00 – 00:47:11:29
Jace
They’re kind of an evil, evil. Equal fighting feels like you will like, you know, they kind of like can always one up each other a bit, but no one is like 100% superior to the other. So I love that dynamic that’s between them there.
00:47:11:29 – 00:47:13:24
Jace
It makes it that much more interesting to watch them fight.
00:47:13:25 – 00:47:27:00
Nick
I think if I was judging, if I was judging the fight on who did the best, I think they kind of set up like, I think Yelena was probably the most gifted. She was fighting both of them at the same time, Clint and Kate and Mya, like all three of them, too.
00:47:27:04 – 00:47:41:00
Nick
And she was she was holding her own up until kind of Kate use the arrow. They’ve kind of really done a good job of selling her character as someone that’s probably one of the better hand-to-hand combatants that we have on as far as the new characters are concerned.
00:47:41:01 – 00:47:47:01
Jace
And I just hope that it’s to that extent, but not like too much. That’s, I guess, right to the body bag.
00:47:47:02 – 00:48:04:13
Nick
She wasn’t overpowering, but I think that she she probably slightly got the better of them more throughout the fight scene, which I which I thought was, I thought was cool. It was interesting, kind of sets her character up as as a more formidable foe or ally, depending on where her allegiances go towards the end of the season
00:48:04:13 – 00:48:19:01
Nick
. Here on the fight scene, I thought was great. I didn’t think it was as great as the action in three. Obviously, for a couple of reasons. I do think like I’m a person that like if you’re doing a big fight scene like this, make the make the surrounding area very like dynamic and entertaining.
00:48:19:12 – 00:48:37:26
Nick
And the the dark apartment with like two strobe lights wasn’t a very like great setting for a big, like our first big fight scene between Kate and Maya. I thought that could have been a more grandiose, more like, at least more visually engaging, like maybe have different red lights going on through the scene or something to kind
00:48:37:26 – 00:48:54:07
Nick
of spice up the frame a little bit. I still think Burton Birdie’s direction in this episode is really good. Like you said, you had to convey very efficiently that Maya and Kate are fighting Clinton in this mass figure fighting, but that Maya and the masked figure aren’t on the same team and to kind of convey that visually
00:48:54:07 – 00:49:07:18
Nick
without having them say some kind of line where it’s like, I’m not with her or something on the nose like that, they just have a scene where where Maya kind of kicks her away from and then you go, Oh, OK, wait, these people are not, they’re not on the same team here.
00:49:07:18 – 00:49:23:28
Nick
So I thought information like that was visually conveyed pretty efficiently throughout the episode. So I do think that they still did a good job here. And then the scene with where they’re all for fighting on on the the rooftop was well directed, well choreographed.
00:49:23:28 – 00:49:33:23
Nick
They had a lot of like wide shots in that it did seem like they put a lot of thought into the choreography there. And the review for Elaina, I knew I probably knew like, right, like probably around the same time as you did.
00:49:34:08 – 00:49:44:12
Nick
Once I saw that he was fighting, once they saw that he was fighting like a woman. I was like, That’s got to be her. They have her masked up. I was like, Who else would it be? I was sitting there before, like breaking my head.
00:49:44:12 – 00:49:53:06
Nick
I was like, Literally, who else? What other character could this be? Because it would. It couldn’t have been a new character, like it would have had to be somebody, you know, right? And I was just like, OK, well, this has to be her.
00:49:53:11 – 00:50:06:14
Nick
So it’s not really the end of the episode when they reveal Yelena because. They reveal her Kate has an opportunity to kind of shoot her, which she probably would have just dodged or caught anyway. But she has an opportunity to shoot her and doesn’t take it.
00:50:06:23 – 00:50:21:08
Nick
Yolande jumps off the side of the building to escape, I guess, and including Kate and Clint, have a big rift where Kate is saying, I’m your I can’t be your partner if you don’t tell me what’s going on and he’s like, You’re not my partner.
00:50:21:08 – 00:50:32:02
Nick
Like, He’s kind of having me like, throw a rock at lassie moment where he’s he’s going like, go away. Like, you know, you like, run, you know, get out of here. The show seems to be about dealing with grief.
00:50:32:05 – 00:50:46:11
Nick
I think that’s mainly the main theme of the show. So Kate, obviously dealing with the loss of her father, she’s this father figure in Clint and kind of latches on to him as a mentor and someone that she can look up to kind of filling the role of of maybe a father she hasn’t had.
00:50:46:28 – 00:50:57:29
Nick
Obviously, Clint, having lost his family and having lost Natasha and dealing with all that guilt of of of what those losses may turned him into when he became Ronan and kind of and kind of grappling with that there.
00:50:58:07 – 00:51:13:06
Nick
Maya obviously coming after him because she lost her father, Yelina, because dealing with the grief of Natasha having been gone, it’s like this big coalescing of all these characters dealing with grief in different ways and kind of taking more violent roots to it.
00:51:13:06 – 00:51:27:19
Nick
And I think that’s I think that’s cool, that they’re all kind of tied together thematically as people having lost something and trying to kind of fill it. Whether it’s a father figure for Kate, whether it’s it’s trying to write his past wrongs, is Clint.
00:51:27:19 – 00:51:39:00
Nick
Whether it’s trying to get vengeance for her sister with Yelena, they’re all trying to, like, fill that hole in different ways there. So I think that’s a really that’s a really interesting dynamic. And I like that. I like that they’re all kind of connected that way.
00:51:39:09 – 00:51:50:11
Jace
Well, as far as that, that theme that you’re talking about with grief in the mall having a loss, that’s it’s a super solid point. And it’s something also I feel like I was able to notice early on just strictly between.
00:51:51:00 – 00:52:06:17
Jace
I guess Clinton came to first and foremost, but then also Clinton Maya specifically in this. So why she’s like a good opposing force because she doesn’t. She’s not just another archer, but yet she still has a similar tie to him in the sense of this is grief and going out for vengeance and stuff like that.
00:52:06:21 – 00:52:18:07
Jace
And now, with Yelena being brought into the fold, it just works that much more so. Absolutely. I think that’s a very, very good point. I agree with it 100%. As far as the the rift between Clinton, Kate, I almost saw it coming.
00:52:18:07 – 00:52:32:17
Jace
It’s the halfway point or is now officially a little bit further past the halfway point of the season and figured that there was to be some sort of dilemma mixed in with them. But this is where I jump back as to why I have an issue with that scene where she went against what he said.
00:52:33:05 – 00:52:46:23
Jace
And it stands out like a sore thumb when she starts saying the things of like, But how am I supposed to be your partner? And then having this argument of why she should be viewed as his partner when you just outright dismissed?
00:52:46:23 – 00:53:07:02
Jace
Everything he said put his experience to the side and said, Nah, it’ll be fine. And then just did your own thing to then afterwards, say something like that is where it’s just conflicting. So I still MLK that there is a conflict as I see that there is going to be a resolution at some point.
00:53:07:07 – 00:53:24:21
Jace
But it almost feels a little bit more force than it needed to. Like, you brought up your idea with how they should have gone about it in that scene. I’ll just kind of capitalize on that. If they would have done that, made it outright for all of this would have seen that much more flow naturally and believable
00:53:24:22 – 00:53:28:17
Jace
. But it’s yeah, they kind of shot themselves in the foot.
00:53:29:03 – 00:53:46:07
Nick
Exactly. I think that’s the big that’s really the big mistake here, because this scene between Clinton, Kate at the end would have been so much more resonant and impactful. Like you said, if if the consequences of her making that rash decision earlier had been the reason why this is happening, it would have been a really good teaching
00:53:46:07 – 00:53:59:13
Nick
moment for her character that she needs to. She needs to not be so overly confident and not be rash and not make these kind of really dumb choices in these tactical situations and how they can potentially lead to nearly dying from all these fights going on with Lena.
00:53:59:24 – 00:54:10:23
Nick
And this could have been a really big teaching moment where she says, like, I can’t be your partner if you can’t let me in and he can glide into her and say, he’s like, You’re an amateur, you this whole thing, you blew our whole cover.
00:54:11:01 – 00:54:19:12
Nick
You, you know, you caused this thing to trip and all that kind of stuff. And had I done this, we would have gotten in and out clean, and this wouldn’t have been a thing. I think they set it up like that.
00:54:19:12 – 00:54:30:06
Nick
Where had Clint done this? It would have been successful. And because Kate did it, it was unsuccessful. And these these opposing forces come in. It would have been so much more logically grounded and stronger in the scene there.
00:54:30:14 – 00:54:43:08
Nick
But to have her have her do that, things go sideways because of the silent alarm, which I think is the fulcrum. The silent alarm mechanism is probably the fulcrum of where things went wrong because it’s like if it if it had been Kate’s fault, it would have made so much more sense.
00:54:43:16 – 00:54:57:00
Jace
Do you think that the silent alarm would have for sure going off like no matter what? Or do you think it’s just because she literally went through the front door? Like, maybe if Clint had gone through the window like he maybe could have gotten around it type of thing, because it’s that painful thing that could have furthered
00:54:57:00 – 00:54:58:21
Jace
your point about it being a. Her fault?
00:54:58:26 – 00:55:11:22
Nick
True, true. Yeah, it definitely could have and. And, you know, maybe they addressed this in the next episode, where he elaborates a little on why he’s kind of like distancing himself from her. But I thought this was a perfect opportunity to bring that up, but the alarm could have been tied to the front door.
00:55:12:21 – 00:55:21:11
Nick
That makes a lot of sense now that you say that because I was thinking it was a motion detection alarm where it was just like, there’s motion in the apartment after they triggered it, then it’s going to go off.
00:55:21:11 – 00:55:30:07
Nick
So either way, it probably would have gone off there, but they were both by the front door. So maybe your point is, is is is accurate. There were just her going through the front door is what tripped it.
00:55:30:07 – 00:55:39:17
Nick
You know, it seemed like when she opened the door and walked in, they weren’t going off. And then when she started walking into the room, the flashing started. So it didn’t seem like it was immediately happening when she opened the door.
00:55:39:17 – 00:55:51:19
Nick
So that’s the only thing I would. I would kind of push back on that with. But yeah, it’s that’s that’s kind of the tough point of the episode there, where I feel like, like we said, everything felt very internally grounded and logical up into that point.
00:55:51:19 – 00:56:04:12
Nick
And then it was like with her making that decision and then the characteristics of it not kind of paying off. It didn’t really. It didn’t really land for me all that well. But like you said, this is the kind of midpoint section where where these kind of these, these kind of things happen.
00:56:04:20 – 00:56:19:10
Nick
And I don’t mind that they’re maybe formulaic in that in that regard. What I mind is, did they do the legwork with the characters to make that moment kind of land, right? And I think they have I think they’ve done enough legwork with Kate and Clint to the point where having that conflict at the end of this
00:56:19:10 – 00:56:36:29
Nick
episode still kind of emotionally lands for me. But yeah, that’s that was episode four here. Do you have any? So like having the big reveal of Yelena come in and he’s being hunted by a Black Widow now? My has been shot in the shoulder by Kate, so they’re kind of setting up a tense standoff with them to
00:56:36:29 – 00:56:44:02
Nick
come up in the future. What are your predictions after this episode as far as where you think everything is going to go in and for the series?
00:56:44:11 – 00:56:58:25
Jace
I feel like they’re trying to potentially throw these things into the mix so that you maybe just maybe can’t fully guess who’s the bad guy, just like how Kingpin doesn’t want you to know who is the bad guy.
00:56:59:02 – 00:57:17:20
Jace
So right where we have this focus? So much on why Maya could potentially be looked at as the antagonist of the series. But I think that really what’s going to happen is slowly but surely, we’re going to have the odd breakdown of their differences and just realize, like we’re not really as much against each other as we
00:57:17:20 – 00:57:36:29
Jace
are so much as like we’re being distracted and should focus on this stuff that Kingpin is doing. I really feel like I don’t know how much he’s going to appear in the next couple episodes, but I do feel like it’s leaning towards something that like, he’s a big underground crime boss and that’s like what they’re all stumbling
00:57:36:29 – 00:57:44:15
Jace
upon and need to stop him. I mean, that’s that’s my big guess is I think that it’s all going to unfold. They’re not actually going to be against each other as much as they seem to be right now.
00:57:45:03 – 00:57:51:21
Jace
I don’t know if that means they’re all going to team up and go against Kingpin, but I do imagine they’re like, they’re going to realize he’s the one to be worrying about.
00:57:51:22 – 00:57:59:24
Nick
I think they’re definitely going to team up. I think that’s going to happen. I think probably all four of them are going to fight against whatever kind of kingpin has going on at some point in this in the series.
00:57:59:28 – 00:58:14:24
Nick
For those of you that don’t know, I’m sure if you’re watching the show, you probably are aware. But Charlie Cox, who played Daredevil, was introduced or he was confirmed to be coming back as Daredevil in the MCU. And when we heard that news that that kind of big news drop that Charlie Cox was reprising that role, I
00:58:14:24 – 00:58:27:19
Nick
messaged you and I said, this seems like it’s indicating like I thought I thought maybe Kevin Figi was doing this intentionally in saying, like, we’re about to reveal Wilson Fisk. I might as well go ahead and reveal that Charlie Cox’s daredevil thing before that happened.
00:58:27:19 – 00:58:40:08
Nick
So when it happened, I messaged you and said, it feels like the timing of this feels to kind of convenient. It seems like maybe we may be getting a Wilson Fisk kingpin reveal in this episode, which we did not.
00:58:40:26 – 00:58:50:05
Nick
So I do think that that’s probably going to happen in the next episode. I think we’re finally going to get Vincent D’Onofrio as Kingpin in the next episode. I think that’s the next big reveal that we’ve been waiting for.
00:58:50:06 – 00:59:05:08
Nick
Having the reveal in the next one, you can actually have the standoff in the last episode in episode six with it. So it makes sense that the next episode is going to be where they reveal that. Quick Note two Did you notice Elena had the Natasha ponytail or the Natasha hairstyle?
00:59:05:20 – 00:59:14:05
Nick
I thought that was pretty. I thought that was that was a cool touch, that she’s kind of adopted that. So she’s going to definitely factor into the next the next episode as well. So it’s going to be interesting.
00:59:14:11 – 00:59:26:09
Nick
Hopefully, they kind of show her perspective a little bit in the next episode. I think they’re probably going to do that. I think they’re going to devote some time to maybe how she got there or what she’s been doing in New York, or how she’s maybe been tracking him behind the scenes and we’ll get to kind of
00:59:26:09 – 00:59:34:12
Nick
see that fleshed out a little bit. So those are probably my big ones. What do you think if I had to pin you down for a prediction? What do you think the Rolexes?
00:59:34:25 – 00:59:47:23
Jace
I’ve been trying to think it’s been stumping me. I’ve been trying to think of it’s been some advanced tech or something. I feel like it’s not so much the watch itself. I I have a feeling like there’s something in the watch.
00:59:48:04 – 01:00:03:06
Jace
Like, if you were to open up, the watch said there’s maybe some sort of whether it’s like, you know, a small chip of information or something like that. That’s my only guess is that the watch is more. So like a casing for whatever is actually something inside, and then again, I’m guessing that it’s maybe just something informationally
01:00:03:06 – 01:00:20:20
Jace
based, but I can’t really try to narrow down what it may be. I’m so desperate to see them start to eventually incorporate X-Men and Fantastic four because they have the rights to it all now, and I know it would be doing a lot at once, and I don’t even think there’s enough of a connection between like comics
01:00:20:20 – 01:00:34:13
Jace
and everything like that to do something like this. But it was like, what if it’s like a list of all the people that are known to have the X gene and like kingpins like testing, you know, running tests on people that that are mutants?
01:00:34:27 – 01:00:45:03
Jace
Yeah, I don’t know. So that was it started going to all crazy places. It’s a good way of me saying, I’m very curious to see how it’s going to be about you, man. Do you have any thoughts of what it is going to be?
01:00:45:12 – 01:00:59:29
Nick
So I have like I have directions of where so I have like, I don’t have like a specific thought, but I have kind of like a vague generalization about what I think it might be. So initially I thought I talked about in a previous episode that if I maybe was Iron Man’s thing, where he pulls the nanotech
01:00:59:29 – 01:01:13:13
Nick
around his hand and it becomes the suit and it kind of builds the suit around him and stuff, I thought it was maybe like a Star Trek, something using that kind of advanced nanotech in the watch there. I don’t think that’s the case now because when they talked about the Rolex, he said.
01:01:13:13 – 01:01:24:07
Nick
Quote, Clint said quote, it would blow their cover. Goodbye, friend. And I remember thinking, Well, that’s on Iron Man, because Iron Man’s already gone. So he’s talking about somebody else. And then I thought, maybe it’s stark tech, but he’s talking about Rhodey.
01:01:24:07 – 01:01:38:11
Nick
So maybe it’s Brody’s watch or something like that for the for. That’s potentially I was thinking like, that might be the case, but I think I think if I had to guess, I think because it’s a watch of symbolism of a watch is similar symbolic of time.
01:01:38:19 – 01:01:51:19
Nick
And we’ve been introducing in the MCU this whole like timelines in different time stuff. And there’s a lot of watches that feature prominently in Loki in the tbey potentially. So I think it probably has something to do with that.
01:01:51:20 – 01:02:06:24
Nick
I think using using a Rolex and using a watch for that is kind of symbolic that it maybe has something to do with TVA or split universes or time or something along those lines, which is why it would be so heralded and expensive in and so sought after by Kingpin.
01:02:06:24 – 01:02:22:29
Nick
So that’s probably where I where I am. Do I know what that is? Practically no. I have no. I have no clue. But I think if I had to guess from a writing perspective, I think like, Oh, if you’re introducing this as a Rolex and it’s a very popular thing and it’s it’s a timekeeper, then then having
01:02:22:29 – 01:02:35:23
Nick
that be related to this thing that you’ve just introduced in the phase four would make sense. So that’s probably where my predictions lie on that. That’s going to wrap it up for us here, though I did have a lot of fun with this episode.
01:02:35:24 – 01:02:49:06
Nick
This was probably, I think, you know, after talking it out and kind of going over that this is probably the weakest of the of the four. Just just because of internal logic issues that we talked about there. So I probably would change my ranking having kind of like, talked it out and kind of spoken about it and
01:02:49:06 – 01:03:06:07
Nick
stuff things that I may be overlooked, but definitely still a fun episode, even like the worst episode of this season is still, I still enjoy how grounded and the characters and everything there. Do you have a do you have anything that you want to promo anything coming out or anything that you’re that you’re currently working on?
01:03:06:08 – 01:03:10:26
Nick
I know you said last week that you were just kind of working on some more Marvel projects and stuff. You were just coming along with that.
01:03:10:26 – 01:03:21:00
Jace
The that you want is the next one up on the list. I know it mentioned that before, but that one is at least more being put together closer to being finalized. I don’t want to give an exact date, but at least be on the lookout for that one.
01:03:21:01 – 01:03:25:18
Jace
That’s that’s the most I will start to promote at the time being shown. Awesome.
01:03:25:29 – 01:03:37:11
Nick
Yeah. So I have a I just did a review on red notice that dropped on the site. The gist medium.com. So you guys can definitely check that out there. I’ve got some announcements about the channel that I’m going to be making fairly soon.
01:03:37:11 – 01:03:46:07
Nick
So if you guys are, if you guys want to join the discord, I’ll have a link in the description below. But I’m going to make some announcements on what I’m going to be doing with the district channel coming up, coming up fairly soon.
01:03:46:08 – 01:03:58:00
Nick
I have some ideas for that. I think King Richard is probably going to be my next review. I’ve already kind of started on that. But yeah, that’s going to wrap it up here. I hope you guys are having a happy holiday from me and Jace here.
01:03:58:00 – 01:04:00:29
Nick
And as always, guys discuss among yourselves. We’ll see you later.