This week Nick and Jace make up for a lost episode. We see what happened to Yelena after Black Widow, who Eleanor is working for, and Maya has a major question answered about who killed her father.
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Episode Transcript
00:00:03:20 – 00:00:17:28
Unknown
What’s up, guys? Welcome back to discuss Hawkeye, the show where we discuss Hawkeye episode five Ronin full disclosure, guys, we had some technical issues recording this episode last week. We had some audio. It was not Jesus fault. It was.
00:00:18:00 – 00:00:33:13
Unknown
It was on my end, definitely. But we had some audio issues, so we lost about an hour of our podcast last week, which is why you guys didn’t get an upload then. But we are going to do an abbreviated version of kind of restate our thoughts and go through scene by scene for this one and and hopefully
00:00:33:13 – 00:00:46:08
Unknown
give you guys some some content for episode five before we get into the finale. With that being said here, just a overview of the podcast. As we do go over our general thoughts, we hop into a scene by scene recap after and then we give our predictions on where we think the show is going to go.
00:00:46:15 – 00:00:58:10
Unknown
Predictions might be a little light since both of us have already seen the finale, but we’re going to be covering. We’re going to be covering five and try to maybe go over some of the predictions that we had before we saw what what actually went down here before we happen.
00:00:58:10 – 00:01:15:01
Unknown
Our general thoughts, guys, if you guys are listening on the podcast platform, make sure to share the podcast or rate five stars do anything to help the show. That way you guys are watching on YouTube. VIDEO Make sure to like and subscribe on the video that really helps us get seen on there just to get started.
00:01:15:01 – 00:01:36:27
Unknown
What is the writer director and the title for Episode five, Ronin or episode five? Episode five is indeed titled The Ronin? Thank you very much. Directed by Burton Byrdie and written by Jenna Noel Fraser, Fantastic and Jace, what were your thoughts on episode five and where would you rank it with the other episodes in the series?
00:01:37:18 – 00:01:55:14
Unknown
I’d probably say that up at that point. So with five and excluding the finale, of course, I would definitely say that it’s probably my second favorite. I think it was definitely just slightly under three. I still think three was like the best one hands down at up until this point and just a wee bit better than four
00:01:55:15 – 00:02:09:07
Unknown
. If I were to throw that out there. So yeah, that’s where that’s where I would rank it overall. Absolutely. I would probably put it closer, like in a mid tier with the episode one and two. So not it’s not as good as episode three.
00:02:09:14 – 00:02:22:04
Unknown
I guess you’re right. It would be in that mid-tier. I’d probably I’d probably put it below episode one and two. Honestly, just because a lot of the stuff that happened, we really saw coming for the most part, and there wasn’t a lot of it was it was a lot of setting up for the for the episode that
00:02:22:04 – 00:02:34:23
Unknown
we get into that comes after this. So it was a lot of just kind of laying the groundwork. We did have some really cool reveals, but they were I thought they were done in kind of unceremonious ways towards the end, which we’ll talk about when we get to that point there.
00:02:34:24 – 00:02:45:11
Unknown
But yeah, I’d probably put it as like my second least favorite, but not not bad. I think it’s in that zone with episode one and two. So we’re going to go ahead and hop into our scene by scene recap for episode five.
00:02:45:11 – 00:03:01:05
Unknown
So the episode starts here. This is kind of the we’ve been introduced to Elena in last episode. We start with this flashback to 2018, which was a very, a very eventful year for the MCU and The Avengers and everything.
00:03:01:20 – 00:03:18:04
Unknown
So we go back to 2018 and we’re in some kind of snowy landscape, and she is breaking into a mansion with another Hawkeye operative. I’m not a Hawkeye, another Black Widow operative, and they meet the person that owns the house.
00:03:18:05 – 00:03:29:18
Unknown
They think that she’s being kind of held hostage or being held there against her will, but she’s actually not. There’s a quick kind of fight scene between them and then after they kind of find out that she’s she runs the house and everything.
00:03:30:17 – 00:03:49:02
Unknown
Yelena takes a trip to the bathroom to kind of wash your face, and we get this awesome transition where we see some very familiar dust come up in her kind of turned to ash and then and then kind of reappear as she reappears in the house there comes out and finds out that five years have passed.
00:03:49:17 – 00:04:04:12
Unknown
And in in that amount of time, some tragic news. She get some tragic news about her sister. What do you think of that scene from start to finish when she when they kind of find the house and go through that and she goes through her life experience and then finds out the tragic news about Natasha?
00:04:05:13 – 00:04:21:11
Unknown
I do like the different perspective of the blip that we’ve been able to see within the Disney Plus shows between this and in Monica Rambeau, in WandaVision and kind of seeing just like how it is perceived from different angles, you know, and when Monica came back, there was a bunch of chaos and raising issues in a hospital
00:04:21:18 – 00:04:35:00
Unknown
. A lot of people around this is much more isolated there, just within one location. So to kind of see the reaction just focused on her, Yelena herself was was really intense and I think interesting, and she acted it out very well.
00:04:35:07 – 00:04:45:04
Unknown
There was definitely one part of it, though, that I just kind of was thrown over. A loop for that is when she came back. You know, I do think the effect of it looked really cool, right? The visual effect was awesome.
00:04:45:04 – 00:04:57:25
Unknown
So props to them for doing that. But it was kind of funny that she slipped away and then she reforms and sees everything reforming around her where you would almost expect that it would just be like she flips back into everything already being that way.
00:04:58:00 – 00:05:10:07
Unknown
I think, honestly, they just kind of did. The animation of reverse like showed the walls changing and then have her reform and re materialize, if you will, then it would have made more sense. It’s just making it’s not like I had an issue.
00:05:10:07 – 00:05:23:04
Unknown
I guess it would just made you think like, I wonder what the true parameters are of this whole living situation. Yeah, yeah. I echo a lot of those thoughts, too. I I don’t understand. And again, these are nitpicks for sure.
00:05:23:10 – 00:05:40:23
Unknown
But in the vein of nit picking, I don’t really understand the blip logics like how everything kind of logically works, the blip. Because if it’s stating that, if it’s saying that when when the snap occurs, like when I am in Snap occurs, everyone comes back to where they initially blip to begin with, which she was in that
00:05:40:23 – 00:05:50:16
Unknown
bathroom. Then it presents a lot of challenges for our heroes, especially ones that may be on. Maybe we’re on Thanos, this planet at the time that they were flipped out when they blip back in, when they just appear back there.
00:05:51:12 – 00:06:08:22
Unknown
It’s kind of fuzzy about the logic as far as about how the reappearance works. I think one theory for that would be the intention of the snapper. So like Iron Man snaps everyone back into existence with the intention that they’re going to be safe, then I guess the magic of the infinity gantlet would put them back in
00:06:08:22 – 00:06:23:07
Unknown
places where they would probably be safe, potentially. So it could be the intention of the snapper that plays into that as well. And yeah, like the room kind of reappearing is a really cool effect, and I think that’s really all that they were going for was just kind of this cool effect of someone coming out of a
00:06:23:07 – 00:06:42:29
Unknown
book. But yeah, it does. It does maybe logically stretch things a little bit there. Kate comes back home to her penthouse. She is very distraught after her argument with Clint on the rooftop, where he pretty much said, like, Go home, we’re not partners and had his like, throw a rock at lassie moment where he’s like, Get out
00:06:42:29 – 00:07:02:18
Unknown
of here, you know, like. And yeah, and he kind of tells her to like, go away and to kind of give this whole thing up. She can’t. She comes home very distraught to her mother. Her mom is obviously heartbroken that her daughter is kind of dealing with this, this kind of pain and and tries to kind of
00:07:02:18 – 00:07:16:05
Unknown
console her. And they have like a scene where they’re talking on the on her bed about how she doesn’t really think she’s cut out to be a hero. And her mom agrees with her and says, like, you know, you can, there’s plenty of things you can do aside from being a hero like, you know, your path can
00:07:16:05 – 00:07:25:20
Unknown
be different depending on where it goes. Yeah, I thought this was a very touching thing. I thought Vera Farmiga was very good as Eleanor in the scene. I thought. I thought that was a very well-acted scene between both of them.
00:07:25:27 – 00:07:44:18
Unknown
But I definitely thought she I noticed I noticed her really, really imbuing that character with a lot of emotion, a character that we’ve been very suspicious of throughout the entire series for good reason. But they definitely talk about, like her, a little bow and how she first kind of kind of got the idea to become Hawkeye, and
00:07:44:29 – 00:07:58:25
Unknown
it really goes through her kind of emotional arc. We get the scene pretty much a mirror of that same scene between Karzai and Maya, where Karzai is treating her wounds after her fight. She kind of seems a little more emotionally reserved than Cate is.
00:07:59:14 – 00:08:13:14
Unknown
So Karzai is kind of signing with her and telling her that, you know, she needs to be open about her emotions and that, you know, if it hurts to just tell him it hurts that it’s him there. She doesn’t need to be so guarded, and she seems to kind of flippantly say, like, All right, I opened up
00:08:13:14 – 00:08:25:15
Unknown
to you. It does hurt, OK? Like, I opened up and it seems I thought that was a fun character touch, just because it seems like she’s she’s so she’s so tight, tightly woven that it’s really hard for her to open up about anything.
00:08:25:15 – 00:08:40:04
Unknown
And she it also shows a level of trust between her and Karzai that I think she doesn’t have a lot of other people. But what did you think of those two scenes and kind of how they mirrored each other between Kate’s mom, you know, and treating her wounds and consoling her and then Karzai doing the same thing
00:08:40:04 – 00:08:56:06
Unknown
for Maya and kind of showing that mirror there and then their interactions and stuff? Yeah, it was. It was a nice little look into each of their assets of their characters that maybe we haven’t seen before, like a deeper level of their personality, if you will.
00:08:56:06 – 00:09:08:27
Unknown
That kind of doesn’t get a sense of shine unless it’s a case like this, right? Where after a battle where you’re kind of you’re most vulnerable, depending on who you’re with, of course. The first scene with Kate and her mom, I definitely liked quite a bit.
00:09:09:09 – 00:09:23:07
Unknown
I did think it was kind of funny that Kate just kind of like completely regurgitated everything that they had done up until that point. But I also can understand because it’s her mom, and at the end of the day, who else is she going to confide in and consoling in other than her?
00:09:23:07 – 00:09:38:08
Unknown
More than anything, even if it is some really crazy stuff like that, I do agree that the acting on Vera Farmiga side was was very well handled there. She does a good job of kind of giving this presence of you can tell I’m up to no good, but I also am a genuine, caring mother.
00:09:38:15 – 00:09:52:14
Unknown
You know, regardless of where you are and how you want to say to me, offset each other, you know, that’s something that you got to give credit for, that comes through in the performance. And then on the other hand, I agree that it seems like it’s very clear kasi and my I have some sort of a I
00:09:52:15 – 00:10:05:22
Unknown
don’t want to say a relationship that is anything more than platonic, but a level of trust that doesn’t seem to be present with anything else. And they’ve hinted at that throughout the show. There keeps coming up where these little little moments where Cosby will be like, Hey, look, you don’t have to worry about saying this to me
00:10:05:29 – 00:10:20:19
Unknown
. Or, you know, Haiti’s guys haven’t learned sign language in the past 24 hours. Like, you find little things like that. You could tell that there is more history between those two. And so there was kind of nice to be able to see the different aspects of each of those characters where in this moment, where kind of Kate’s
00:10:20:19 – 00:10:32:29
Unknown
at her darkest point, where she feels she does it, she’s she’s kind of lost all her confidence in that moment, and she’s a very confident character. So she’s kind of been stripped away of that after that Clinton ordeal and kind of questioning whether or not she’s fit to be a hero.
00:10:33:09 – 00:10:42:08
Unknown
And I like that it presents this very easy out for her where it’s like she could just stop right now. Clint gave her it out. Her mom is kind of consoling her and say, Listen, you’re going to have financial security.
00:10:42:08 – 00:10:55:01
Unknown
You can have a job, whatever. Just kind of drop this. Let’s let’s kind of go on. And she’s presented with this very easy out. But but as most heroes do, decides to go, the harder route decides to get back into the fray and it’s a choice that she makes.
00:10:55:01 – 00:11:08:07
Unknown
It’s not like she’s forced into it by external circumstances. It’s it’s a very inward choice that she makes to to go on and become that and kind of turn into that that hero that she wants to be, which I think is a really smart move for the writers to kind of give her that choice to make and
00:11:08:07 – 00:11:25:00
Unknown
have her make it. I, it goes, it goes back to Kate is going back to her burnt apartment, which I didn’t think we’d see again her cool little Batcave college apartment and all her stuff there. She’s kind of visiting back there, I guess, to like, reminisce or maybe have a have a moment to herself to think about
00:11:25:00 – 00:11:42:04
Unknown
things. And she doesn’t have long because she’s greeted by Yolanda Bulova, who is making some mac and cheese, some easy mac on the stove. And we get this great scene where her she is kind of taken aback by a person that tried to kill her being so cordial and making her mac and cheese and wanted to have
00:11:42:04 – 00:11:53:23
Unknown
dinner with her and everything. And we get this really great banter between the two. She’s trying to get some information about Clint that she very much who she very much wants to kill, thinking that he was integral in Natasha Romanoff’s demise.
00:11:53:23 – 00:12:09:25
Unknown
So in between that Clint goes to Girl’s apartment and he is going to be staying with gorillas throughout. This girl says, Don’t get a hotel, you could stay on my couch. So they’re setting up that, you know, girls make a made a return after the laughing sequence, and he’s going to be kind of assisting Clint and and
00:12:09:25 – 00:12:24:09
Unknown
being a being a safe house for him. And that and that bit there. But what were your thoughts here about the whole scene with with Hailee Steinfeld and Florence Pugh chewing up the scenery and the kind of realization that Yelena is looking to kill Clint?
00:12:24:12 – 00:12:40:08
Unknown
She’s she’s on the hunt now. I love the dynamic between those two. There’s a lot of charisma presented in that scene, and it was very well acted on both ends. So to see them come together was just really nice and fulfilling because, you know, I got a chance to give us what we have been looking for.
00:12:40:09 – 00:12:52:08
Unknown
We wanted Julianna to be more than just like a cameo in the show and helped develop Kate even further, because like you said, at this point, she’s really on the outskirts of things and she is actively trying to get herself back into it.
00:12:52:20 – 00:13:02:14
Unknown
And maybe she’s kind of forced into that situation a little bit, but handles it pretty well. She easily just could have been like, you know, get into the apartment Cellulant on like, I’m done with this. I have nothing to do with this anymore.
00:13:02:14 – 00:13:13:25
Unknown
I’m I’m not with Clint, I’m not his partner. But she stayed. People tell their own defended Clint, which is a really cool thing for her, I guess, to do a lot of everything right instead of just kind of cowardly backing away.
00:13:14:07 – 00:13:24:05
Unknown
And I got to hand it to as far as Florence Pugh, just for the acting in that scene. It’s funny because, you know, I could see where maybe someone would start to pick it apart and say, maybe she’s overdoing it with the comedic aspect of it.
00:13:24:05 – 00:13:38:20
Unknown
Like, it wasn’t really getting serious until a certain point. But I didn’t have any issue with that. I thought it fit really well. It started to, like, establish a foundation between them and then all of a sudden the serious questions started to kind of turn their head and I like wanted.
00:13:39:00 – 00:13:54:24
Unknown
I like the whole like progression of that scene. Yeah, I will say I think the I think the scene works because of the performers. I think with other with other actresses. If it wasn’t Hailee Steinfeld and Florence Pugh, who for my money are two of the two of the most talented up and coming actresses in Hollywood that
00:13:54:24 – 00:14:04:17
Unknown
are working right now, I just think they’re great in everything they do, really. I think they really elevate the material here. I think in other hands, this could have been a very kind of I. I think it was a little underwritten.
00:14:04:17 – 00:14:15:01
Unknown
Some of the banter went on a little longer than maybe it should have. But I think the reason it works is because they kind of really sell it with the performances, and they’re so likable as characters that it really works there.
00:14:15:02 – 00:14:25:14
Unknown
She has some really great lines where she she says she eats reindeer, and I did want to get your quick thoughts on hot sauce and mac and cheese. What do you think about what are your thoughts on mac and cheese hot sauce?
00:14:26:02 – 00:14:39:22
Unknown
So as far as I’ve never actually had hot sauce on mac and cheese, the closest that I’ve had to it is like buffalo chicken in mac and cheese. And I guess that that’s kind of right reminiscent. And that’s not bad.
00:14:39:23 – 00:14:49:03
Unknown
I prefer regular mac and cheese, but I’m not like against that. So if it’s anything like the buffalo chicken, then I’m OK with it, I guess. Yeah, I think hot sauce on mac and cheese is an insane concept.
00:14:49:04 – 00:15:02:04
Unknown
I’m not, though. I will say I’m not a hot sauce. I’m not a hot sauce fan, but I do. I do kind of silently judge people that put hot sauce on their mac and cheese. So anybody listening? If that’s you, we may not get along if you do that in public or anything like that.
00:15:02:04 – 00:15:13:21
Unknown
So just keep that in mind. But the way Florence Pugh switched midway through this sequence, where she really went serious and went like, I’m actually going to kill him, I thought the way she sold that was really good.
00:15:13:21 – 00:15:30:00
Unknown
It would have been really easy for us to not take her seriously after the kind of banter and stuff that they just did, but to really see the flip switch in her and when she starts to go, it’s kind of business and I’m here to avenge Natasha and it’s very serious and she’s very intimidating too.
00:15:30:01 – 00:15:38:28
Unknown
And I think Kate really notices that too as something she’s like, I really don’t want to mess with this girl here. So I thought the scene did everything it really needed to, and I thought it was really well.
00:15:38:28 – 00:15:53:17
Unknown
It was. It was one of the highlights of the episode is just kind of seeing them go back and forth. She makes her patented BlackWidow exit out the window and we go back to Grill’s apartment, where Grylls tells Clint that he’s going to kind of sleep on his couch with lucky there.
00:15:54:03 – 00:16:13:01
Unknown
And Kate goes back to her penthouse apartment where her mother, Eleanor, using the information that she received from Kate, like you said in the in the past, seen her mother, Eleanor, called the cops on her fiancee Jack. And Jack is getting arrested because he’s involved in some money laundering thing with Sloan.
00:16:13:26 – 00:16:28:27
Unknown
And as he’s being arrested, he’s very he’s very chipper. He has that kind of I’m rich in the law really doesn’t apply to me kind of vibe to him, and he’s not worried in the slightest, he says. I would have done the same thing if I was you honey, I must be.
00:16:28:29 – 00:16:42:19
Unknown
I must be being framed. I’m going to get my name cleared and I’ll be back in time for your Christmas party. But I did love his kind of arrogance in the face of the situation and and stuff. He gets escorted out and in the next scene is Clint is at the memorial.
00:16:42:27 – 00:16:56:05
Unknown
He’s at the The Memorial for the Avengers Saving New York, and he has this great scene where he’s kind of he has an internal moment and kind of a prayer to Natasha and apologizes about what he’s about to do.
00:16:56:19 – 00:17:16:07
Unknown
What did you think of those two scenes where Jack gets taken away on on Eleanor’s call and in the scene where Jeremy Renner has that touching moment talking to Natasha in front of the Avengers Memorial? I love the scene where Jack gets taken away strictly because as far as it, I can’t help but crack a laugh when
00:17:16:07 – 00:17:32:07
Unknown
I happen to see how eerily and bizarrely nonchalant both of them are being. Kate’s mom and jack when this is going down, but in different ways, like you said, Jack is almost like, like, he’s just like, this is just, you know, like it’s a regular part of the day.
00:17:32:07 – 00:17:49:09
Unknown
Not like this happens to him all the time, but you’d swear that this was no crazy event by any means. All right, I’m just going to go run this there and I’ll be back. And then you got Kate’s mom, on the other hand, who is just like Stone Cold Killer vibes with this complete blank face like you
00:17:49:25 – 00:18:03:17
Unknown
, if bad doesn’t give a dead giveaway that she’s up to something. I don’t know what does. There was already the fact that when Kate earlier with this disclosing this, that she still was just like, OK, I’m going to look into that and it’s like, That’s it, you know?
00:18:03:17 – 00:18:11:19
Unknown
And then now you compare it with this as well as just like, oh my gosh, like, come on. Yeah, it’s a great point that she has kind of been like the whole season. And I get it. It’s Kate’s.
00:18:11:25 – 00:18:25:00
Unknown
Kate’s mom. So Kate’s Kate would be the last person you would expect to be involved in anything, right? But at the same time, there’s just so many, like huge red flags that just just based on her performance where you’re just like, How are you?
00:18:25:00 – 00:18:38:05
Unknown
Not how are you not like besides yourself that your fiancee, like was money laundering for like the mob and he’s now going to be arrested and your marriage is off and all this stuff. And she just seems so like, yeah, I found out that it was legitimate, Kate.
00:18:38:05 – 00:18:47:13
Unknown
And now he’s getting arrested, and you’d think Kate would be like, Are you sure you’re OK? Because like, you know what I mean, there’s like no emotion coming out of you or when she actually gives her the news about it.
00:18:47:13 – 00:18:57:07
Unknown
There’s just like no emotion. It’s just like, OK, yeah, like you said, I’ll check into it and it’s like those. I feel like even Kate in that moment would be like, This seems weird that she’s not like distraught about this at all.
00:18:57:08 – 00:19:14:07
Unknown
You know, it seems like something she would. She would be beside herself about. Exactly. And then, with continuing to the scene with Hawkeye at the memorial, thought it was. It was a very touching little scene that I think actually pulled more emotion maybe than the Navy and they were aiming for just because of the fact that I
00:19:14:07 – 00:19:24:03
Unknown
think this goes right back to like how we were talking about the conversation with Lawrence and Haley. It’s the acting that elevates it. I think that’s really fair to say with this whole show is that the acting elevates it.
00:19:24:08 – 00:19:41:03
Unknown
And then this next scene with Clint is a good example of that as well, because when he’s talking to Natasha in this scene, it’s really just showcases like he’s putting on a great performance. It’s it’s something that kind of pulls and tugs at the heartstrings a little bit as far as what he’s saying about how he misses
00:19:41:03 – 00:19:53:14
Unknown
her. And you could tell that he’s a wreck now that she’s gone or has been, I should say, a wreck for a while now. The only part that I don’t really get is knowing what takes place later in the episode, which I know will be done.
00:19:53:20 – 00:20:14:07
Unknown
I don’t understand what he’s apologizing for so heavily like that just strictly because, you know, spoiler alert, nothing really big happens. I would say that justifies such an apology. So other than that, I still really like the scene, but I feel like it kind of amps up something more or kind of builds up some tension for something
00:20:14:07 – 00:20:27:11
Unknown
that doesn’t really pay off quite as much. Yeah. Yeah, I think I think the main thing and it was kind of sold the little high for what actually happened. But I think the main thing was just like I, I think he vowed never to put the Ronin suit on again, and he was going to do it in
00:20:27:11 – 00:20:39:27
Unknown
this instance to like, try to try to get out of something there. So I think it was very yeah, it was kind of oversold as what he was going to maybe do. And we’ll talk about that when we get to that scene because I think there’s a way that it could have gone that made if you would
00:20:39:27 – 00:20:47:29
Unknown
have been a little more compelling for me. But one of the things one of the notes I had about the scene was, I thought it was a really smart choice to have him take his hearing aid out right before he started.
00:20:48:00 – 00:21:01:16
Unknown
I thought. And then the sound kind of like zones in on him, and it makes the moment so much more intimate between him kind of speaking to posthumous Natasha. And again, just to echo your point, too about Reiner’s performance.
00:21:01:16 – 00:21:16:18
Unknown
I think Jeremy Renner did a fantastic job in the scene. He’s done such a good job throughout this entire show. And I think because he plays a stoic character, he doesn’t get as much buzz about his acting because he’s he’s playing it very reserved and understated as Hawkeye is as a person.
00:21:16:29 – 00:21:28:25
Unknown
But he in these in these moments, he really lets his emotion come through and shows kind of how much pain he’s in facing that loss from Natasha. So I think he did a fantastic job in the scene and in every scene he’s been in so far, the series.
00:21:29:10 – 00:21:46:04
Unknown
I did want to get your quick opinion on the memorial. It’s a plaque. So I remember watching this and going like, Wait, there’s a plaque on the right side of an overpass that says, Oh, thanks Avengers for saving New York from an alien invasion that killed all these people or something like that.
00:21:46:17 – 00:22:07:15
Unknown
I was expecting, if you know, I get why they do it, it adds to the world building of the MCU, but I was expecting some gigantic like Statue of Liberty sized like memorial for, you know, having saved New York from alien invaders and it being such an integral turning point in world history for it to be something
00:22:08:10 – 00:22:20:24
Unknown
. A plaque the size of something you would get for having like the best coffee in New York seems very, very strange to me. What did you think of that? It was maybe a tad bit underwhelming given the circumstances.
00:22:20:25 – 00:22:39:07
Unknown
Like if you were, yeah, you would expect to see that plaque from many other lower case circumstances. You know, I will say I’m sure that perhaps they had done some sort of a memorial in like a more fitting location that maybe was more accessible by more people, but they still wanted to acknowledge the actual spot that it
00:22:39:07 – 00:22:47:26
Unknown
first went down. That’s true, which is kind of funny. It’s even funny to level it down to a spot, to be honest with you, because it’s like they just came together in the throughout the entirety of New York.
00:22:47:27 – 00:22:58:26
Unknown
Like, How could you really say like what? We went through the cameras on the down the street light and we found that this exact intersection was where they first got in that circle. Remember that circle post? Yeah, yeah, that’s what I was assuming.
00:22:58:26 – 00:23:09:00
Unknown
That’s the spot where they did the Joss Whedon circular around post. Maybe, and they’re like, Oh, this is where the Avengers first fully assembled or something. But yeah, it seems very arbitrary for people to kind of create a plaque based on that.
00:23:09:18 – 00:23:21:15
Unknown
The other part that I do want to squeeze in, though, is the fact that they do kind of hint that maybe there is something. So I mentioned that maybe there’s a memorial in a different location. Yolanda makes a hint that she’s there to see the new and improved Statue of Liberty.
00:23:21:25 – 00:23:35:20
Unknown
And, you know, I won’t go into like a whole crazy, different discussion because I know this could start up a whole new thing. But all I will say is in another Marvel project, you do see that they’re basically adding the Captain America Shield to the Statue of Liberty.
00:23:36:11 – 00:23:53:19
Unknown
So I think that’s the only use a little bit seems a little more fitting. Let’s see. It goes back to Kate. She is making her choice. Like I said, she’s kind of sitting in a room and deciding whether this hero thing is something she actually wants to do, whether she feels like it’s worth it, whether she feels
00:23:53:19 – 00:24:05:08
Unknown
like she’s good enough. And she’s kind of having all of these thoughts in her room here before deciding that, yeah, she’s this is what she’s going to do. This is what she’s wanted to do since he was a kid, since Queen inspired her to be coming here to begin with.
00:24:05:19 – 00:24:20:09
Unknown
So she gets on the phone and does what does what heroes do in that situation, which is just a phone bomb client and try to get him to answer the phone and tell where he is if she can find him, she’s just going to annoy him back into being partners again, which is her, her kind of M.O.
00:24:20:09 – 00:24:42:04
Unknown
There it goes after that scene to we get to trust Deborah. Movers are driving and they’re giving us classic tracksuit wearers. So they’re talking about Run-D.M.C. and some Olympians and a bunch of other people that are very they’re pioneers of tracksuit fashion, and they’re kind of paying homage to that.
00:24:42:04 – 00:24:58:06
Unknown
All the while while they’re playing Run-DMC’s Christmas and Holly, which I thought was a great music choice for that scene there. But they get into the parking lot for, like their hideout, I guess, and we get an arrow through the window with a secret message, and it’s role in telling Maya to meet them where she first met
00:24:58:06 – 00:25:17:24
Unknown
the Ronin, which is where her father died, which is a big fat fat boy auto, which is a clue as to something we’re going to get into later in the episode as well. It goes right into a scene where Clint goes back to retrieve the Ronin suit from the locker, and he has a kind of a very
00:25:17:24 – 00:25:33:11
Unknown
serious phone call with Laura where he’s telling her that things really just got real. He’s kind of telling her that Yelena is hunting him. The big guy might get involved, quote unquote, the big guy. He’s very transparent with her, as always, and she is very supportive and just says, do what you have to do to protect the
00:25:33:11 – 00:25:51:14
Unknown
family. You don’t need permission from me like I have your back, no matter what. And and it’s a very kind of emotional conversation for Clint there. What were your thoughts in those scenes from her making the choice to you to kind of be a hero and calling Clint the Trust of Rome, overseen with the tracksuit staff and
00:25:51:14 – 00:26:09:04
Unknown
getting the message from Ronan to meet at the auto shop and then the phone call with Clint and Laura. I just love the further establishment that you know, they’re making tape like you brought up before act of about wanting to be back into this right that she’s trying to be hero and and not really kind of just
00:26:09:04 – 00:26:22:05
Unknown
placed in that situation against her will. And it’s like, well, you just had to do this. So here you go. You know, it’s like, I want to, you know, kind of redeem myself, if you will, because I think she knows that she didn’t exactly do that great with the last mission that they were on.
00:26:22:09 – 00:26:37:29
Unknown
So that was really nice to see the tracksuit guys just always make me laugh. I just love the whole like, what do we look like, The Royal Tenenbaums? I’m just, yeah. Well, again, with their humor landing without really having to do much, I like how they kind of keep it just, you know, sprinkle them at the right
00:26:37:29 – 00:26:59:02
Unknown
places. It seems just appropriate when they do place it in and then leading into the phone call. As far as with Clint and his wife, I do actually love their relationship, probably more than like any other couple that’s in the MCU because it’s so nice and relieving to see how comforting and bear for him that she is
00:26:59:02 – 00:27:15:25
Unknown
. You know that there’s never any questions about anything that could easily picture where they would take the angle of like, you’re doing what where with some young woman, you know, and just not having like a trusting attitude, especially because of the thing that’s happened with Natasha in the past, like having such an established relationship with her.
00:27:15:28 – 00:27:33:20
Unknown
But just how like accepting that she is of everything and understanding, I think is absolutely phenomenal, especially because Clint’s already clearly going through enough. It’s it’s nice that he has something like that. It’s almost sad how refreshing it is to see like a very, very positive, supportive relationship in media.
00:27:33:21 – 00:27:50:11
Unknown
Like, I don’t know, like it seems and I get why, because it’s such an easy thing for conflict in shows is to have a relationship with secrecy or jealousy or judgment somewhere in between. And have that be a fulcrum for the character where maybe he has to hide things from the wife or the wife is to hide
00:27:50:12 – 00:28:06:12
Unknown
things from the husband? And it’s this point of conflict where you’re you’re wondering how they’re going to resolve that. It seems so weird that it’s so it feels so different here where they’re having this conversation in their entire relationship throughout the whole series has just been this foundational rock for Clint to go to, and it’s great that
00:28:06:12 – 00:28:20:20
Unknown
he has this emotional rock that he can always lean on in these circumstances. And there’s nothing else to it like, it’s just like there’s not like some kind of some kind of untruth that’s being hidden from him or some kind of secrecy that’s changing things.
00:28:20:20 – 00:28:32:18
Unknown
It’s just it’s exactly what it is, and it’s almost weird that it feels so different. You know what I mean? It’s weird. Apparently, that’s so rare in and in stuff nowadays that that feels odd. It goes out of that scene, too.
00:28:32:19 – 00:28:53:17
Unknown
We get this really great action scene where Ronan is going to meet Maya. Maya has brought all of her henchmen. Kasi is set up as a sniper, a sniper perch above the auto shop, and we get this great action scene where he kind of takes out her thugs, takes out Cassie on the roof, and then it’s all
00:28:53:17 – 00:29:04:14
Unknown
set in this used car lot with Christmas lights above it and everything as well. He takes her down and before he, she thinks he’s going to kill her and he doesn’t. He takes his mask off and reveals that he is Clint Barton.
00:29:05:03 – 00:29:16:05
Unknown
That is the ronin. And he says that her boss is the one that that tipped him off initially to go kill her father and that he’s just a weapon. And that’s not that. That’s not. There was nothing kind of personal about what he did.
00:29:16:05 – 00:29:27:14
Unknown
He was just a weapon that was aimed by somebody that had more nefarious intentions in in her boss, which we’ll get to later in the episode there. What were your thoughts in that scene, the action sequence and kind of the way you took out the henchmen?
00:29:27:18 – 00:29:37:27
Unknown
We took our kasi, the fight scene between he and Maya, and then the realization that both Maya now knows that he’s the Ronin and her boss is the one that kind of sent him on that mission to begin with.
00:29:39:02 – 00:29:55:20
Unknown
I love the whole vibe that the scene gave off because it gave me a very Batman feeling in Alabama, so that was that was really cool. But this is kind of to helpfully help clarify what I was talking about before where I was a little confused as far as like this heavy apology given by Clinton, Natasha, because
00:29:55:20 – 00:30:07:11
Unknown
I thought he was about to just go on a murdering spree, like I thought he was going to go out there and I didn’t know how they were going to do it because the show has talked about these deep subjects, but it’s not like they’ve seen, you know, we haven’t seen anyone die.
00:30:07:16 – 00:30:19:06
Unknown
So I was a little, you know, kind of confused. I’m like, Are we about to see him like officially take out the tracksuit gang or take out Maya, which obviously she’s got a show coming up. So you knew that wasn’t going down.
00:30:19:06 – 00:30:35:18
Unknown
But all the more like I said, a little conflicting because it’s like, OK, yeah, he put the suit on, but it was only to really prove a message. It was just to make a point. There wasn’t actually anything like that was severely detrimental about him putting it back on, like, I’m actually starting to be the ronin again
00:30:36:26 – 00:30:47:14
Unknown
. I love the point of just like that. He kind of made to my head just very stern. Like, Hey, look, enough’s enough. Cut this out without really having to do much of anything else than just being stern and intimidating.
00:30:47:18 – 00:31:00:07
Unknown
Just put this foot down. I’m like, Enough’s enough. And I think that was a very eye opening experience for Maya. But, you know, I really think you can kind of tell that not like she’s fully flipped. It’s not like a light switch thing, which I do like that as well.
00:31:00:07 – 00:31:15:01
Unknown
It’s like a regular, believable transition, but that she does kind of start to, you know, raise an eyebrow, a little bit of like, maybe I don’t know everything that’s going on here, and I need to dig a little deeper myself before I start jumping to conclusions and throw in my rage in any given direction.
00:31:15:06 – 00:31:29:08
Unknown
I think him saying that and him him raising that possibility that her her boss may have had something to do with it. I think that it starts things start kind of falling into place for her when she starts realizing maybe suspicious things that she didn’t realize before.
00:31:29:17 – 00:31:42:00
Unknown
So I think that’s a good characterization for it. Kate comes in with the assist at the end as Maya kind of gets the better of Clint for a second and goes for a killing shot before Kate comes in with the assist and Clint gets away is how the scene ends there.
00:31:42:10 – 00:31:53:11
Unknown
What I what I’ll say is I totally agree with your point that it seemed like he was going to do something a lot worse than he did based on that prayer that he gave to Natasha that he was going to do something worse there.
00:31:53:11 – 00:32:05:03
Unknown
And I thought it was a little bit of a missed opportunity because what we had seen so far in the episode was Elena and Kate talking about Clint’s morality and Elena saying He’s not the person you maybe think he is.
00:32:05:03 – 00:32:21:10
Unknown
He’s done a lot of horrible things is he’s and he has. He’s killed, he’s killed a lot of people as Ronan and then Kate say, you know, he’s a Caesar’s redeemable paragon and his hero. And I thought this would have been a really perfect opportunity to kind of really amp up that that struggle between the two of
00:32:21:10 – 00:32:38:19
Unknown
them about four kind of Clint’s morality. I thought what maybe should have occurred in this instance is Maia maybe tells him that she’s not going to stop pursuing his family if he lets her go or something in her kind of enraging and wanting vengeance says that, you know she I know about your family.
00:32:38:19 – 00:32:49:22
Unknown
I’ll go after your family next. And then it may be a fit of rage where he’s really concerned about maybe his family’s safety. At that point, he may be turns around for a second and thinks about maybe ending it there.
00:32:50:00 – 00:33:03:23
Unknown
And then Kate kind of stops him from doing that as opposed to stopping Maia from from killing him. I thought that would have been a really, really great opportunity. It would have both showed Clint’s love for his family and that he would really go the distance to protect them at all costs.
00:33:04:02 – 00:33:19:20
Unknown
It would have shown Maya’s rage about her father and about how she’s not going to just kind of let something go. And then it would have presented that moral quandary between Hawkeye and Elena, where I’m sorry, between Kate and Elena, where Kate maybe sees that maybe he’s capable of doing some things she didn’t think he was capable
00:33:19:20 – 00:33:31:13
Unknown
of. And then and then later in the season, Yelena realizing he maybe has more humanity than she thought he did. So it would have really heightened him as a morally gray character. So I thought that was a little bit of a missed opportunity.
00:33:31:14 – 00:33:43:13
Unknown
I definitely think it still works the way that they did it, but I thought it really could have really could have driven a lot of dramatic elements home if they had handled it that way. So, yeah, it goes right to a scene where Maya finds Cassie after everything in the fray.
00:33:43:13 – 00:33:54:18
Unknown
He says, Yeah, I was knocked out. Did you? Did you take him out? And she says, No, he got away. And that’s when she raises the question. Hey, you weren’t around that night that my father got killed. Where were you?
00:33:54:19 – 00:34:05:21
Unknown
Why didn’t she come to the meeting? And he says, Oh, I didn’t get the call, which is kind of a I feel like he could have come up with a better excuse after not having after this amount of time, you would expect maybe you’ll get that question at some point.
00:34:05:22 – 00:34:22:03
Unknown
Maybe have a better, better excuse in the holster that, oh, my phone didn’t ring. You know what I mean? Or something, something like that. I thought that was a little a little weak, but they’re setting up that. She’s very suspicious of Karzai now, and she’s maybe she’s maybe suspicious of her uncle here, and that kind of sets
00:34:22:03 – 00:34:37:25
Unknown
that up into the next scene. It’s it goes to the car scene with Clint and Kate, where Kate is telling him, Hey, Jesse, you know, Yelena wants to kill you. And or she says that that person that fought us wants to kill you and Hawkeye, says Yelena, showing that he knows who Natasha.
00:34:37:26 – 00:34:51:24
Unknown
My sister is. But what did you think of those scenes between Cassie and Maya and Clint in L.A.? Where are Clint and Kate where she’s saying that Joanna might be hunting him? Yeah, I think that, you know, it was funny because I could have taken it one of two ways with Cassie.
00:34:52:10 – 00:35:02:08
Unknown
I thought for a brief moment, I was like, Maybe he’s just tell the truth. Like, not saying, I full-on believe him, but it was almost like, Maybe that’s it. I just I truly didn’t get the call. Like, I don’t.
00:35:02:09 – 00:35:13:18
Unknown
What do you what are you talking about? Like, what are you trying to seriously pin this on me? But of course, they’re all bad guys, so you can’t trust any of them or anything. So I do agree. I think that was a little bit funny.
00:35:13:18 – 00:35:27:02
Unknown
As far as like, that’s the best you couldn’t say you were in the midst of like I was doing something else, like your father sent me to do this. That’s why I was embarrassed. Something like that. So definitely got a little piss poor excuse on Ozzy’s on.
00:35:27:02 – 00:35:42:07
Unknown
But you know it is so, so be it. It was a great way to go ahead and raise the suspicions for Maya that much further. And then as far as moving forward with the whole like revelation of Clint knowing Elena’s identity, I think that makes perfect sense.
00:35:42:26 – 00:35:54:23
Unknown
They seem to have had Clint Natasha such a relationship over the years that I can’t imagine that he wouldn’t know like close to everything about her, especially when it comes to the more personal info like family members that no one else would know.
00:35:55:01 – 00:36:11:22
Unknown
So like, I wasn’t really surprised in the slightest to kind of see that that was the best way that information being known, right? I wasn’t kind of taken aback to know that he knew that, if anything, it just made it that much more like impactful for him to realize like, Oh crap, I thought it was bad enough
00:36:11:22 – 00:36:21:21
Unknown
that a Black Widow was coming after me. Now I realize who specifically, it is great. Now I got to deal with something that I haven’t wanted to deal with for a while. You know, he doesn’t want to talk about Natasha now.
00:36:21:21 – 00:36:35:19
Unknown
He’s got the other sister. Yeah. And I think he I think he realizes why she’s after him, too, because I don’t think obviously a lot of information about what happened in any game is not revealed to the public, like the public really doesn’t know what happened, but they do know that Clinton and Natasha were together when she
00:36:35:19 – 00:36:48:20
Unknown
when she died. And that’s what that person told Natasha are told Yelena after the Black Widow film in the post-credits scene. So I think I think it falls in a place where she she probably thinks that I did this and that’s why she’s after me.
00:36:48:20 – 00:36:57:26
Unknown
So it seems like, ah, he’s kind of resolved to that information and says, OK, well, I totally get why she’s after me at this point. And then he goes into the final scene where we’re at a girl’s apartment.
00:36:57:26 – 00:37:12:14
Unknown
Kate is now with with Clint after having saved him from Maya and Lucky’s there, Grylls is there, and then Kate gets a very big phone call or text message from Yelena from an unknown number, saying, Hey, I thought you should know this.
00:37:12:24 – 00:37:26:27
Unknown
And we get a fuzzy image of Eleanor Bishop standing next to Vincent D’Onofrio as kingpin who we’ve we’ve we’ve been hinting at could be possibly in the show for a long time now, and we finally get our first image of him.
00:37:27:06 – 00:37:44:18
Unknown
It’s on the worst, the worst cell phone camera that I’ve ever seen in image. Or maybe it looks like she took a picture with her phone off like a security camera. Potentially. I don’t know something like that, but that was our last shot is a very fuzzy, fuzzy picture of our big bald antagonist here.
00:37:45:06 – 00:37:57:26
Unknown
What did you think of that reveal of Kingpin and kind of how it worked out? I did think it’s funny because I was so happy that they revealed it, that I think that’s just why I’m OK with almost however it was done.
00:37:58:01 – 00:38:10:04
Unknown
I would almost like if we got a chance to see him, you know, like if there would have been some like physical presence that was even if it was just like showing him in person. But nonetheless, the photo obviously still does the same thing.
00:38:10:10 – 00:38:29:25
Unknown
And the biggest takeaway overall is no matter again, like I said, how they did it. I was ecstatic to see that they actually brought Vincent D’Onofrio character back. I’m extremely curious if they are ever going to fully clarify if this is the exact same iteration of the character from the Netflix series, or if this is supposed to
00:38:29:25 – 00:38:41:02
Unknown
be like, you know, with the multiverse like a variant, if you will like how Loki’s terminology would throw it out, where it’s he’s still kingpin, it’s still Vincent D’Onofrio, but it’s not going to be anything in relation to the Netflix series.
00:38:41:23 – 00:38:55:04
Unknown
So, like I said, that’s that’s one of my biggest curiosities. But nonetheless, just to actually have them be their reference to, you know, Hawkeye knowing that he’s a big deal. And everything I thought was really cool, obviously was also not.
00:38:55:04 – 00:39:06:12
Unknown
I don’t want to say a shock factor, but kind of nice to officially get the quote unquote shocking news that Eleanor was also up to no good within this and that they have something to, you know, they’re working together to some capacity.
00:39:06:19 – 00:39:25:23
Unknown
So it was a really nice reveal in a good way to end the episode. Yeah, I agree. I was, you know, just the sheer excitement and ecstatic like how ecstatic I was that Vincent D’Onofrio was finally confirmed and shown in the show really overshadowed the fact that I had issues with how it was done because I remember
00:39:25:23 – 00:39:43:19
Unknown
thinking like, this is such an anticlimactic reveal where she’s just getting a text message from an unknown number. And it’s not just that we’re getting our first image of Kingpin in this kind of unceremonious way. It’s also that she’s getting her first realization that her mother like this betrayal from her mother is is is done in this
00:39:43:19 – 00:39:59:01
Unknown
unceremonious fashion to where it’s just this image that shows them both together and Kate’s coming to that realization there. It just seemed very undramatic, and it seemed like a very, very big character moment that that that was kind of this unceremonious little picture on a on a cell phone screen, and that was kind of it.
00:39:59:13 – 00:40:14:23
Unknown
So I get I get why you had to do it. You were saying you’re kind of setting the stage for this next episode and the season finale. I just thought that that information could have been revealed in a more dynamic way, both kingpins reveal, as well as Kate finding out that Eleanor is is maybe involved in some
00:40:14:23 – 00:40:29:01
Unknown
criminal dealings that she had no idea about prior to this in that kind of betrayal that she felt. But yeah, that’s how that’s how the episode ends here. If we can think back at this point in the show, what did you think was going to occur?
00:40:29:02 – 00:40:50:06
Unknown
Like, what were you thinking about going into the final episode? I do know that probably one of my biggest thoughts, because my main thing is focused around Kingpin at this time. And I was definitely anticipating that Eleanor was like kingpins, right hand girl like that was something I almost was looking at Eleanor and Jack’s relationship as like
00:40:50:06 – 00:41:06:06
Unknown
a complete facade that Jack thought it was real, but that simply he was a placeholder to kind of make it seem as though there was something that was not going on while secretly Kingpin and Eleanor were like, you know, the king and queen of New York, if you will run in the show in the background.
00:41:06:06 – 00:41:20:02
Unknown
So at least I thought maybe that’s what was the reveal was going to be. Was that not only was her mom kind of up to no good, but maybe up to way more, no good than she expected. Her mother was always a huge suspect from us, from honestly, the first episode we remember thinking like, Oh, there’s a
00:41:20:02 – 00:41:29:18
Unknown
little something, there’s something going on with her. You said it was like we were playing horse and she was ticking all the boxes of suspects, you know, to play horse. There was a lot of red flags popping up for there.
00:41:29:24 – 00:41:48:21
Unknown
My other prediction for the last episode was so I did. I did still think Jack was a red herring and was just oblivious to everything. And then my other prediction was, I thought, Clint. The way Clint was going to convince Helena that he’s worthy of not getting killed is he’s going to say something very personal about Black
00:41:48:21 – 00:42:02:10
Unknown
Widow and about Natasha that only her sister would know. And that’s going to raise a suspicion of like, how would you know this unless she loved you or lost? You were, you know, unless you’re being honest about about your relationship with her.
00:42:02:20 – 00:42:17:14
Unknown
So I definitely had that as a prediction going into the last season. I can’t remember if I had any other predictions here. I think we predicted, did we predict anything about the watch? I think I said, I thought maybe it was dark tech like, yeah, I think it was the furthest that we got.
00:42:17:19 – 00:42:30:16
Unknown
Yeah, I think that was our main prediction about the watch. But yeah, that was that was really are our predictions about the episode there. But that wraps up episode five Ronin. So we’re going to be doing the season finale in the next episode in this next podcast here.
00:42:31:01 – 00:42:45:11
Unknown
If you guys are enjoying the podcast and enjoying kind of hanging out with us throughout this this season, make sure to like and subscribe if you’re watching on the YouTube YouTube channel and make sure if you’re watching on the podcast, either share the podcast with other people that you know, like Hawkeye or rate five stars in Apple
00:42:45:11 – 00:42:58:14
Unknown
Podcasts up going to help us as well. Jace, do you have any anything that you want to promo anything coming up at all that you want to talk about for your channel? I’m excited to say that after taking a bit of an unintended hiatus for a little bit here during the holiday season.
00:42:58:27 – 00:43:09:08
Unknown
Got a wave of content that I’m excited to have coming back out. So expect, as always, a variety of skits mixed in with everything, but definitely some reviews that I’ve kind of straight away from them as well with some Marvel stuff.
00:43:09:15 – 00:43:24:01
Unknown
So Shang-Chi and Internals are definitely going to be up on the list coming soon. But also, please expect something for Spider-Man No Way Home from myself, as well as from the whole cinemas line. We’re going to be coming together to do a kind of live streamed discussion about that, and then I’m not going lie.
00:43:24:02 – 00:43:36:06
Unknown
Even though it’s been so great to discuss episode by episode since I have not done my own episodic reviews, which I normally do for the Disney Plus shows I will have like Hawkeye Season one breakdown review that I’ll kind of just be be thrown out there as well.
00:43:36:06 – 00:43:46:27
Unknown
So I’ll be up. Yeah, yeah, really excited. You guys make sure to check the description his his channel is going to be linked in there. I did a review on power of the dog on the dismissed. You guys can check that out.
00:43:46:27 – 00:43:57:16
Unknown
That’s a Netflix show that’s probably going to be in Oscar contention at some point next year as well. I’m working on a review for the tragedy of Macbeth, which is the new Coen Brothers film that I was able to get access to.
00:43:57:16 – 00:44:09:06
Unknown
So I’m working on that. I’ll probably be up on the site in the next few days, and I’m working on some content for the district channel, so keep an eye out for those going forward. But that’s going to wrap it up for us here, guys.
00:44:09:06 – 00:44:14:22
Unknown
I hope you guys are having a fantastic holiday season, as always. Discuss among yourselves and we’ll see you guys next week.